Im wanting a supercharger for my 91 gt but not sure which one would be best for my car. Anyone have any recommendations or experiences with either blower to help me decide. I have a 5 speed with 3.73 gears, trick flow heads and a comp cams xe 270 cam. I basically want a really fast street car something that can outrun the new camaros and challengers, ill probably never run at the track. I would like to start out with about 10 psi and a dyno tune but want the ability to be able to increase the boost if needed later on. i like the idea of the instant boost of the kenne belle twin screw and love the sound but seems like bigger power gains are made with the centrifugals. When do you feel the boost kicking in on a centrifugal? Also cost between the to really isnt a factor.
mustang_guy302
Bigger horsepower gains ARE typically made with centrifugals.
Kenne bell typically makes way more torque with a flater curve.
Get an Si trim if you want an easy 10 lbs.
Kenne bell typically makes way more torque with a flater curve.
Get an Si trim if you want an easy 10 lbs.
Torque takes you from light to light, or even to the top of say 125mph, how far you wanna race the new challenger, light to light, or on the drag strip. Centrifugal blowers are great, but take it from me. I had the chance when I up graded to go to the other side but I bought the Blowzilla 2.1 with the Flowzilla mani, and would not turn back for nothing. They rev up faster, boost is max from the beginning ...they are becoming more common, hmmmmm wonder why>>>:salute:
Agreed, it would be easier to go the Si route......Im bi-partial
Agreed, it would be easier to go the Si route......Im bi-partial
Have you thought about a turbo?
I have a s-trim now and the boost comes in quickly. Centris pull very hard at the top end. An advantage to a centri is that all of the boost doesn't hit instantly and this can help with tire spin
KB is really fun to drive, but not nearly as much top end
turbo is more efficient, and make more power per boost
I am probably going to switch to a turbo soon. Probably ON3
I have a s-trim now and the boost comes in quickly. Centris pull very hard at the top end. An advantage to a centri is that all of the boost doesn't hit instantly and this can help with tire spin
KB is really fun to drive, but not nearly as much top end
turbo is more efficient, and make more power per boost
I am probably going to switch to a turbo soon. Probably ON3
with more efficiency, heat, and air volume come reliability issues. Turbo's cost more, far from just a bolt on, and you always gotta remember its a personal preference, thats it. I would buy a turbo if I wanted a BIG power car. Same for Pro-chargers. Si would be the easiest 10lbs, Kenne bells are easy to install also. I love these debates.
Well, it just so happens that I own both types on a Fox body.
The Kenne Bell is cool. It makes all of it's power/torque down low. When you hit around 4k, it really starts to scream like those twin screws do. Fun car.
The Novi is different, but it makes so much more power then the Kenne, it too makes plenty of power down low, and then just keeps going.
It all depends on your budget and ultmate HP goals. If you want the big hp/tq numbers, then go with a centi. If you just want a quick tire fryer, you can't go wrong with the Kenne Bell.
The Kenne Bell is cool. It makes all of it's power/torque down low. When you hit around 4k, it really starts to scream like those twin screws do. Fun car.
The Novi is different, but it makes so much more power then the Kenne, it too makes plenty of power down low, and then just keeps going.
It all depends on your budget and ultmate HP goals. If you want the big hp/tq numbers, then go with a centi. If you just want a quick tire fryer, you can't go wrong with the Kenne Bell.
I'd say turbo would be the way I would go if I had it to do over again.
Kb's are cool. I've driven a few. Vortech's will give you a slightly better chance at traction and unless something has changed, Kenne Bell's customer service is by far, The worst I've ever incountered........
Your 3.73's would seal the deal for me.. Vortech..
Kb's are cool. I've driven a few. Vortech's will give you a slightly better chance at traction and unless something has changed, Kenne Bell's customer service is by far, The worst I've ever incountered........
Your 3.73's would seal the deal for me.. Vortech..
I have a KB and love it. I take the car to the track once or twice a year, but 99% of my driving is on the street in the city where I love it. HOWEVER the biggest issue is FOX KB's are not intercooled, and therefore cannot run a ton of boost as they get too hot. Centri's on a FOX are more efficient and make more power.
If you want to start out at 10 psi, I don't think there is all that much left in any KB setup unless you invest $$$.
If you want to start out at 10 psi, I don't think there is all that much left in any KB setup unless you invest $$$.
Run Meth with the 2.1 KENNE BELL like alot of foxbodys and run up to 15lbs booost!!! That or use nitrous and don't need more boost
just compare how long it takes a Vortech V1-S trim to hit max HP. Which is at the end of the RPM range, And then look at a KENNEBELLS HP comes in by 4000 rpm and last more than 500 RPM. Not to consider the TQ on a K/B comes in 2000 rpm and has a flat curve, not just peaks like a vortech/procharger!!!!
Nothing like it on the STREET... Check out my dyno http://photobucket.com/moddedvette
Plus with the kennebell, you can make extra money, in your town pulling tree stumps out of the ground...:shifty:
just compare how long it takes a Vortech V1-S trim to hit max HP. Which is at the end of the RPM range, And then look at a KENNEBELLS HP comes in by 4000 rpm and last more than 500 RPM. Not to consider the TQ on a K/B comes in 2000 rpm and has a flat curve, not just peaks like a vortech/procharger!!!!
Nothing like it on the STREET... Check out my dyno http://photobucket.com/moddedvette
Plus with the kennebell, you can make extra money, in your town pulling tree stumps out of the ground...:shifty:
I have the 2.2L Kenne Bell @ 12 psi with the Flowzilla manifolds on a 347 stroker. I am also spraying 50/50 meth, 14 GPH prior to the blower & 7 GPH after with AIS's kit. Absolutely love it! It is a street car that weighs 3750 with me in it and has run an 11.15 @ 127 MPH!
This is my original dyno on the 347 build with 6 psi and the original Blowzilla manifolds & 75mm TB.
http://forums.corral.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=42653&ppuser=72466
This is my original dyno on the 347 build with 6 psi and the original Blowzilla manifolds & 75mm TB.
http://forums.corral.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=42653&ppuser=72466
I ended up with Modo's 165's and GT40 intake and his S trim. Had those things with a small cam on an Explorer short block and a 5 speed and put almost 560 to the wheels with a 5 speed. Car was in the upper 10's like that at full weight with a/c still functional.
Have a T trim with 185's, Systemax intake and some other goodies and put 607 to the tires on pump gas. Will be running the car soon so I should have some new numbers.
Modo got a good ride down Delaware Ave in Philly in mine with the new set up. :king:
Have a T trim with 185's, Systemax intake and some other goodies and put 607 to the tires on pump gas. Will be running the car soon so I should have some new numbers.
Modo got a good ride down Delaware Ave in Philly in mine with the new set up. :king:
I have had all three in the last year. KB 1.5 on stock long block aod vert = lots of fun, power came on down low but leveled off at 4-5k. Great for a smoke show. Installed AFR 165 heads and TFS heads, Tmoss ported lower and full exhaust maf injectors and tune. Car absolutely was an animal on the street but not so great on the track. Too much power down low wouldnt 60 and not enough steam on the big end. Added meth, got a new tune and popped a head gasket and torched a head. Now have a $5,000 plus built NA 349 stroker. Car is actually faster at the track but not near as fun to drive on the street.
My other car had a Procharger P1sc, first on stock long block aod, then HCI and t-56. Much much faster on the track than the KB car, still enough down low for stop light to stop light fun. Lifted a head at the track and now undergoing a complete transformation.
Now car has 331, HCI and On3 Turbo. Going in for a tune soon.
In summary, if your car is an AOD vert and you dont plan on racing it get the KB. If you want to drag race get a cent. If you are handy with a wrench and dont mind a little bigger project skip right to the Turbo, you simply cant beat the HP per $.
My other car had a Procharger P1sc, first on stock long block aod, then HCI and t-56. Much much faster on the track than the KB car, still enough down low for stop light to stop light fun. Lifted a head at the track and now undergoing a complete transformation.
Now car has 331, HCI and On3 Turbo. Going in for a tune soon.
In summary, if your car is an AOD vert and you dont plan on racing it get the KB. If you want to drag race get a cent. If you are handy with a wrench and dont mind a little bigger project skip right to the Turbo, you simply cant beat the HP per $.
I've had both S trim and KB on my coupe and by far the KB is more fun to drive. The v2-S trim is a nice blower and builds boost well but I was seeing maybe 5 psi at 3k and that was with a 8" crank and 3.00 blower pulley with a tight belt. The KB however makes max psi by 3k and even at 2k makes nearly full boost. Gobbs of torque off idle is very addictive. I made 460 RWT at 2k with the KB. The S trim with same motor made 235 RWT at 3k. Like I said I've had both on the same car and motor and much prefer the KB for its instant power. You must consider the power under the curve both of a centi and twin screw blower. Look at some of the dyno threads around the corral. If you look at the peak power numbers centi rule, but if you look at average power under the curve KB dominate. And nothing comes close to making the kind of torque KB can develop from the instant the throttle blade opens to the intersection of peak HP. The look and sound of a KB screaming down the road is icing on the cake.
Yes the KB's get hot at higher boost levels even more than the centi, but I have fixed that take a peek inside.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaV9-7qR0N8
Yes the KB's get hot at higher boost levels even more than the centi, but I have fixed that take a peek inside.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaV9-7qR0N8
My old s-trim car made 460 hp to the wheels and 430 tq. It was a 306 with ported stock heads, cobra intake, and lunati blower cam. I ran 12 lbs of boost. It ran 11.70's in the quarter at 121mph. This was granny shifting because I didn't want to trash the stock t5.
As far as on the street, it would blow the tires off in 3rd gear when the boost hit hard, and you could carry it into 4th if you dumped the clutch. It was very fast red light to red light...
I liked my vortech, so much that I have one on my car now. I haven't tuned or raced this one yet. I did blow the et streets off in 2nd at 3/4 throttle
I would rather go turbo though. I think the KB is cool, but turbo blows them both away
As far as on the street, it would blow the tires off in 3rd gear when the boost hit hard, and you could carry it into 4th if you dumped the clutch. It was very fast red light to red light...
I liked my vortech, so much that I have one on my car now. I haven't tuned or raced this one yet. I did blow the et streets off in 2nd at 3/4 throttle
I would rather go turbo though. I think the KB is cool, but turbo blows them both away
modo, If you don't mind...
What Anderson cam and what was your exhaust on that 560rwhp combo?
What Anderson cam and what was your exhaust on that 560rwhp combo?
First of all, Kenne Bell Customer service is fine, there are great people. Just like with any smaller private owned companies, time is more of an essence. I got serious love from them, free pulleys, free pulley remover, free tshirts, and a 400 $ discount. Everytime I call them, they answer, they always resolve my problem as good as they can, . I paid for the blower and 3 days later had it, I called there tech line,, didnt hold for longer than 45seconds, and was off the phone in 3 minutes. See how that goes with Vortech, or Ati, or the turbo kit makers....
My personal preference is a Centrifugal. There are just so many advantages to one. They are more efficient, easier to intercool, have more power potential, cheaper, etc. Roots/Twinscrew kits for the 5.0 just aren't as good as the mod stuff.
One of the biggest things the kennybell guys preach is that they make so much power/torque below 4000rpm. Well how much time do you spend under 4krpm in a race? I made over 400ftlbs of torque to the rear wheels by 4k rpm and it just goes up from there. All with a little entry level, stock pullied Vortech S-trim.
One of the biggest things the kennybell guys preach is that they make so much power/torque below 4000rpm. Well how much time do you spend under 4krpm in a race? I made over 400ftlbs of torque to the rear wheels by 4k rpm and it just goes up from there. All with a little entry level, stock pullied Vortech S-trim.
I would say to the OP, drive a car with both SC's and see which one you like. If the Kenne Bell was closer in price to a Vortech/Paxton I would love one on a street car. But when you can get a brand new Vortech SCi-Trim for under $2000 with a 3 year warranty it's no question which one I would buy.
centri is more efficient..mmmmmmmmm:bs:
From Whipple's site (they make twin screws): "The Whipple twin screw compressor is 75% to 85% adiabatic and volumetric efficient while the roots is commonly 40% to 55%. Common centrifugal superchargers have a peak of 65% to 80% but do just that, peak. Over an entire rpm range, a screw compressor has an average efficiency far greater than the roots or centrifugal."
From Colorado Cobra's site: "The Roots blower has the lowest adiabatic efficiency of all the forced induction designs (including the turbocharger, which has to start off with hot exhaust gases to deal with) - generally around 50 percent. The roots type is so inefficient because it doesn't compress the air directly, but delivers uncompressed air which wells into the intake manifold, becoming more compressed, but with additional heat gain from the turbulence and reverse flows of air mixing. Centrifugal superchargers can vary from 60% up to perhaps approaching 80% efficiency, as can turbochargers; both are more efficient at higher rpm, which is another way of calling them more inefficient at lower rpm. The twin screw supercharger normally delivers lower output temperatures, for adiabatic efficiencies of 70-80% across the whole rpm range."
The KBs - boost-for-boost produce LESS heat than a centrifugal. That is with both blowers at 10#, the KB would produce cooler air. The KB DOES heat the air longer,because the blower is delivering full boost for the entire 1/4 mile run - and the centrifugal will only be at full boost a part of the time. Plus the blower case gets more heat soak from the engine because it sits on top of it.
The 2200 can support over 700 RWHP - so it won't run out of breath for most people...
From Whipple's site (they make twin screws): "The Whipple twin screw compressor is 75% to 85% adiabatic and volumetric efficient while the roots is commonly 40% to 55%. Common centrifugal superchargers have a peak of 65% to 80% but do just that, peak. Over an entire rpm range, a screw compressor has an average efficiency far greater than the roots or centrifugal."
From Colorado Cobra's site: "The Roots blower has the lowest adiabatic efficiency of all the forced induction designs (including the turbocharger, which has to start off with hot exhaust gases to deal with) - generally around 50 percent. The roots type is so inefficient because it doesn't compress the air directly, but delivers uncompressed air which wells into the intake manifold, becoming more compressed, but with additional heat gain from the turbulence and reverse flows of air mixing. Centrifugal superchargers can vary from 60% up to perhaps approaching 80% efficiency, as can turbochargers; both are more efficient at higher rpm, which is another way of calling them more inefficient at lower rpm. The twin screw supercharger normally delivers lower output temperatures, for adiabatic efficiencies of 70-80% across the whole rpm range."
The KBs - boost-for-boost produce LESS heat than a centrifugal. That is with both blowers at 10#, the KB would produce cooler air. The KB DOES heat the air longer,because the blower is delivering full boost for the entire 1/4 mile run - and the centrifugal will only be at full boost a part of the time. Plus the blower case gets more heat soak from the engine because it sits on top of it.
The 2200 can support over 700 RWHP - so it won't run out of breath for most people...
:lol:
Well at least we all drive Mustangsain:
I just seen a 950hp TwinScrew Vette,
Why cant we do that.
2.8 on a 408,,,hmmmm
Kenne Belles aren't the all to be all, but they are badass. For the money, by the hairdryer, hands down. I still aint trading in my Kenne Bell, I will sit here with my small ass 331, and overheated Blower, and well I still feel cool.
Now how many are as cool as the guys across the street from my house,
All Aluminum 427 with an F3 gear driven Procharger, something about the first to hit 2200HP with that setup. , dunno Ati is local to me here in KC, guess we will see. ,,,:king: I like all BOOST regardless of its delivery.
Well at least we all drive Mustangs
ain:I just seen a 950hp TwinScrew Vette,
Why cant we do that.
2.8 on a 408,,,hmmmm
Kenne Belles aren't the all to be all, but they are badass. For the money, by the hairdryer, hands down. I still aint trading in my Kenne Bell, I will sit here with my small ass 331, and overheated Blower, and well I still feel cool.
Now how many are as cool as the guys across the street from my house,
All Aluminum 427 with an F3 gear driven Procharger, something about the first to hit 2200HP with that setup. , dunno Ati is local to me here in KC, guess we will see. ,,,:king: I like all BOOST regardless of its delivery.
You ignore every point I made about your critique on the quote I made from whipple.
Explain the heat issue....boost=heat.?
Which has more heat 5psi or 10psi in the same volume?
Now compare the boost of a WOT run between twin screw and centri.
Picture in your head since you are ignoring the data, a run between 2000-6000rpm.
centri makes boost from 0-10psi(the end point we are comparing) as a function of rpm, its linear progression. ie 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10psi as rpm increases.
twin screw boost from 0-10psi is instant 1-10psi in less than a second....
Why do you think the twin screw generates more heat? cause its generating max boost for more time.
Has nothing to do about my pride, its your incorrect statement that propagates thru forums......".KB make too much heat and is inefficient".
Explain the heat issue....boost=heat.?
Which has more heat 5psi or 10psi in the same volume?
Now compare the boost of a WOT run between twin screw and centri.
Picture in your head since you are ignoring the data, a run between 2000-6000rpm.
centri makes boost from 0-10psi(the end point we are comparing) as a function of rpm, its linear progression. ie 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10psi as rpm increases.
twin screw boost from 0-10psi is instant 1-10psi in less than a second....
Why do you think the twin screw generates more heat? cause its generating max boost for more time.
Has nothing to do about my pride, its your incorrect statement that propagates thru forums......".KB make too much heat and is inefficient".
My datalogs from my ysi on a pass show consistant boost on shifts and my iat holds steady at roughly 200 degrees. I highly doubt a non intercooled kb or whipple would show the same. Put both blowers on a flow bench for a hour at max boost and I'd still bet the cent would have lower temps.
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