Nice work! Informative but if info!

 

i don't have to do any of that....

 

Do the pro-m instructions say how many times you’re supposed to publicly make a fool of yourself? Or does it just mention to do it as required?

 

I hated the single pre position % because to keep the RPMs floating nicely the car would auto accelerate in the lower rpm range. (For me) I get what you mean about the 15 second decay. I used the IAC adder/RPM table. It worked awesome for me with driveability and idle control.

Nice part is different ways to skin a cat.

 

Don't have the same issues with an auto. I was running iac off the 1d table, but not now. I pulled power to the iac motor and adjusted throttle stop until the motor just about died. I opened ~ 1/2 turn then adjusted afr and timing for best idle, then plugged iac back in. Set idle to 1500, noted iac position and used that as park position. I don't over shoot or under shoot, its the same every time. The ford iac flow isn't linear below 40, but it works really well above 40.

I love seeing other users fuel maps.

 

whats a fuel map? i haven't looked at those either. No need too.

 

whats a fuel map? i haven't looked at those either. No need too.

Do you want a gold star? A cookie perhaps? Do you get off coming onto the Holley section just to say dumb s*** like this? Have you invited your buddy Indy to come Holley bash this thread too?


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did you read my write up? changed heads, 10:1, different cam, single plane intake. in the presence of e85 it automatically adds 6*. if it sees e70, it adds less timing. the car is amazing.

 

ive run 20+ engines. the 331 was an example of one of them. the 408 will hopefully be the last.

 

Go puff yourself up somewhere else. And stop PMing me, if you want to ask something, post it publicly. If you want to build a rapport with somebody, do it when you're not charged up about something. And the answer to your PM is "it doesn't matter what ECU you're using, the engine will continue to run fine after the blower belt breaks." I ran my KB blown engine without one as an experiment.

 

easy cougy. it was just a question. thanks for answering. carry on. enjoy

 

nice work. useable info that will help others no doubt.

id like to see the pre-programmed strategy the prom uses for idling large overlap with the good-for-one, good-for-all fuel and timing maps...

 

Managing Idle torque is where Tuning versatility comes into play. You have to deal with IAC, timing, fuel, AFR. Big cams are always challenging especially at low rpm, you build a lot of cylinder pressure thus the “thump”. This is also one of the reasons you won’t see a big cam car idle below 900 rpm, congrats to Coug for getting below that threshold cause it isn’t easy. My cam has a lift of .610 / .614, 230’ish duration. I can get my idle down to low 800’s but the car shakes to much for my liking so 900 rpm is the sweet spot. Changing my injector end angle provided the most benefit for smoothing my idle, this was done with a 2D table. This was customized to fit cam timing events and it’s a powerful tool especially when running large cams. There’s lots of info on Holley’s site about customizing this parameter and it’s worth a read.

 

Idle rpm depends on the whole combination.

I'll play. Old cam was a solid roller 238/238 560/560. I could idle it down to 500rpm, and no way was it shaking that much. No way would keep it there.

New build had a 611/625 238/242. Would idle at 600rpm. Again I wouldn't keep it there.

To many variables to make blanket statements.

 

I made a specific injector end angle table as well. My cam is tiny compared to what you guys run but it sounds like a stocker at 800rpm. 227/239 .587/.587

 

Jeez guys. This reminds me of the Ford v Chevy v Mopar wars. Agree to disagree. With that said, don't need a guy preaching holier than thou. We choose our systems or marcs. Some like to tinker; some pay others to tinker. It's a hobby.

 

 

I looked at this as valuable tech that someone has put time and effort into and willing to share with us, this buffoon comes into every Holley post and acts like a spoiled little baby with his daddy’s money who bought him the best of the best and brags about just swapping motors to just “play”.

He’s clearly a asshat and no self respect.

Thanks to the original post for adding some valuable tech that some of us will use and learn from


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name calling. lol love it. clearly someone has their Holley hurt....

 

I love how we can all agree on mustangs but want to bust balls over which Is the superior way to manage the ecm lol. I can see the argument either way and understand it’s human nature to hate change. In my opinion a pro m set it is perfect for someone who loves using a mass air flow sensor and a 30 year old harness with a car they never plan on modifying again. The Holley was the more logical buy for me being that I have an 87 SD and some of the wiring on my car was questionable. It took me about 2 days of messing around with the Holley software to feel comfortable using and to get gm car dialed in. The support for Holley is also great they have have techs on stand by to help if you run into any issues. The shop that dyno tuned my car told me he has installed over 100 Holley kits this year alone. But hey to each his own no need to bash on another because at the end of the day it’s who’s car can put perform one another not who’s better on a computer lol

 

In my opinion a pro m set it is perfect for someone who loves using a mass air flow sensor and a 30 year old harness with a car they never plan on modifying again.

The ProM actually comes with a new wiring harness, they have like 4 different harnesses for the Fox Body alone. 86, 87-89, 90, and 91-93 as each of them were a bit different.

I love reading how others are tweaking their systems!

 

At least 50% of the posts so far have zero to do with post #1. The posts that are worth reading have a bunch of info about stuff I never knew the Holley system could do. Great thread, not withstanding the garbage posts that doesn't apply.

 

There was a thread in 5.0/5.8 about tuning where I thought I'd toss in a little info from my personal experience, but then thought better of it. S*** show I figured. Who knew sharing a little bit that I learned about dialing in a more difficult application would be so controversial? I kind of figured the guy who completely screwed up his aftermarket ECM install and needed his hand held by the owner of the company (and then became a disciple) would likely break his promise not to troll/try to stop all discussions about other brands, but I held up some hope that perhaps he'd matured into a sentient being with just the smallest amount of self-awareness and maybe even show a little bit of humility. But, literally as I type this post, there's been 3 4 5 6 7 8 posts that have popped up. I wonder if it's the same person spamming up this thread even further?

I actually have one good conversation going on the side spawned from this thread. I honestly didn't expect many replies as it's normally very quiet over here. Sometimes I just like to document things I'm working on before I forget, hoping that someone might see something they hadn't thought of before. Tip: use google to search for topics on the Holley forums as their stupid native search engine doesn't allow for 3-letter words, which is like most of the terms that mean anything for tuning- lol. Maybe the insecure will get bored and we can keep this thread going as a repository for ideas on tweaking our tunes for best drivability. The concepts apply across all tuning devices (well, except the ones where the almighty himself is moving the levers from within.) For the N/A Windsor engine crowd who are pushing the limits of streetability, we don't have the option of dual variable timing overhead cams with long runner intakes, so we need to share info if possible.

 

Do the Holley Sniper EFI setups tune the exact same way? Would make sense they might but being SEFI versus throttle body based may make things a little different.

 

toliet bowel injection.

 

there's nothing controversial, you're just speaking a language some dont/cant understand. like fuel maps or iac duty cycle or injector phasing or trigger edge...

when people dont understand something different than what a supposed authority has proclaimed they get angry/defensive. (perhaps buyers remorse veiled in sarcastic whips and self righteous claims)

i happen to use a different ecu than holley but the tuning fundamentals remain the same, and i for one appreciate your write up, as i enjoy reading any tuning strategies of any sort. you never know when someone has a better way of doing things

no such luck with a particular ecu platform, all you will learn is how to plug in connectors and talk ****e on the internet about concepts completely foreign to those particular users.

i hope you continue to post your experiences, as most are limited to the gm crowd and its nice to relate to concepts and ideas many of us dont get elsewhere. keep it up!

 

Omg, this is a how to post that got turned into a **** show. Knock it the **** off or the people that have meaningful things to post, won't. Subforums are here for a reason. Stay in your lane.

 

just giving you the correct term for cheap, ancient technology. but it works. engines have run off of tbi for almost 40 years.

 

Dyno tunes are great for dialing in WOT, not so much for drivability. Coug was showing some ways to improve drivability which is 95% of tuning. My timing map is pretty much 100% complete, this is for an NA 347 motor on 91 octane pump gas.

You can get a good estimation of HP by looking at fuel usage; using a BSFC of .5, then figure your fuel usage x 2 for estimate of HP. This is my VE table showing actual fuel useage, the circle is the area where HP and torque intersect aka 5250.

Tune for VE, it's easy to see where my motor makes the most power, This isn't rocket science.

So I pretty much have maxed out my current engines performance for the sum of its current parts. I'll be installing a 4R70W soon with a different converter so that will change my tune a bit. I'm interested in tuning the transmission, Holley allows for shift control, pressure, lockup etc. When it's all said and done, my car will run and drive like I want it too, specific to my expectations and that's all I could ask for.

 

And now I can ask questions

Dyno tunes are great for dialing in WOT, not so much for drivability. Coug was showing some ways to improve drivability which is 95% of tuning. My timing map is pretty much 100% complete, this is for an NA 347 motor on 91 octane pump gas.

18 degrees at idle seems low? Mine is 24-25 degrees. Although lately I've been trying to get a better lope by lowering the RPM - down to 800 and I don't want to go much lower due to vacuum is down to 7" Hg. I'm wondering if I can get a more thumpy sounding lope by lowering the timing some? Currently the engine idles stupidly smoothly for the size cam I have. I know the 2012/14 Boss mustang had a special tune you could switch to that had a nice lopey idle. I should have a dash switch input that initiates a table that creates a super lopey idle for "leaving the car show" coolness. Hmmmm...

I still prefer the small table, timing isn't something I've focused on much, it's barely different than the one provided by Holley.

Tune for VE, it's easy to see where my motor makes the most power, This isn't rocket science.

My VE tops out around 107 which is in the right ballpark. 121 seems high for a N/A engine. This can be caused by incorrect input for fuel pressure or sagging fuel pressure at higher HP levels (or something I haven't thought of?)

So I pretty much have maxed out my current engines performance for the sum of its current parts. I'll be installing a 4R70W soon with a different converter so that will change my tune a bit. I'm interested in tuning the transmission, Holley allows for shift control, pressure, lockup etc. When it's all said and done, my car will run and drive like I want it too, specific to my expectations and that's all I could ask for.

Mine is also maxed out for what's an affordable high cubes stroker that's driven mostly on the street. It actually kind of annoys me that I'm literally afraid for my life to hit 100% TPS for more than a fraction of a second. My own fault though, I have a brand new set of drag radials to mount on the car but I'm being a cheap bastard trying to save some of their life. I'm so cheap my drag radials usually have to be scrapped due to time versus worn out. I've only worn out one set of the 4 sets I've owned.

 

It's good to finally see a timing table with some healthy numbers in it. I see so many people with SBF combinations barely touching 30* at cruise.

 

If you look at my timing table, you see where I ramp up timing (pink). I run a 2800-2900 rpm stall converter so I ramp timing right when the converter couples. Below my true stall, the converter is slipping so I don’t want a lot of timing to keep heat down. That’s another reason for going with the 4R70W transmission, I can lockup the converter when and we’re I want too, and you can bet I’ll add timing in the lower rpm and cruise.

 

I have a 366, 8.2'' block. Have run the engine with the Pro M with a hyd. roller cam than yours yours, Cougar, and it was just fine. NA. 6.5 HG.. Always in the 10's.. Tune what tune? Start it up and put it on the trailer. Now its a carb motor. Solid roller. Let say over .700 lift and 10.5 HG. with the same basic duration # and a Victor intake. Lets just say without having having done it, I am quit sure the Pro M would have driven my car to the same ET's, as my carb, without having to change a thing. My best friend has a son who is a holley dealer. Guess who has a laptop sitting on the roof of his car in the staging lanes that he is supporting? The only time I had a laptop out was to change the starting line rpm, which really sucks when you are in the bright sun. Only issue I ever had was Innovate. But I admit both systems are good in there own ways. Funny thing is my car was just as fast with an old school PMS and a 9AL. Just ran out of rpm.

 

Guess who has a laptop sitting on the roof of his car in the staging lanes that he is supporting?

Someone who isn't smart enough to have their laptop mounted on their dashboard?

Someone who doesn't care about winning?

Haha, I kid. I love how much we all care about our image while we're secretly crossing our fingers each run. Drive a manual transmission and you know what' I'm talking about.

 

Not the ecu. The harness is now unserviceable due to being salvaged for other wiring projects. All it would take is a new harness for the required year fox.