[jdsgallops]

Having done a search I know many of us have had starting problems, especially after a relocation of the battery to the trunk. None of the posts I found though explained what is happening in my situation, I believe.

I have relocated the battery to the trunk. This was done the same time as the engine swap, about 600 miles ago. I intially had the normal starting issues. Once I added a second ground cable everything was fine. I had no more starting issues. I stilled seemed to have a charging issue though. After climbing in the car one too many times to a dead battery I finally ripped the alternator out and had it looked at. I was told it was close to needing a rebuild so I told them to go ahead and do it.

Upon replacing the alternator I went back to trying to verify the timing at 10*BTDC. I started it and it was showing the correct voltage. I turned the car off, hooked up the timing light and started it back up. Timing light was off again so I stopped the car, loosened the distributor and went back to restart the car. All I got was a clicking sound.

Before I went spending a $140 on a new starter I did some checking around. Things I have checked:
1) The battery is a new Optima red. I pulled it and double checked with the battery out of my focus and got the same results.
2) I visually checked all ground cables for damage and tight connections. All checked out fine.
3) I visually checked the power cable. Again no damage and proper connections. I have this run direct to the solenoid with 1/0 welding cable.
4)I pulled the starter and checked to see if it was working. I used my jumper pack by placing the power side to the solenoid and then grounding out the starter with the ground side. I attached a wire to replace the relay for a signal and the starter spun over and acted "normal". I replaced the starter at this time and got the same clicking sound.
5) I placed my remote starter switch on the starter. I ended up with the same clicking sound. Since the clicking sounded like it could be an arcing I tried the switch several times while watching the starter area; no arcing was visible. I tried it enough times that the inside of the car filled with a light smoke. The same thing happened when I tried doing this with the key from the inside of the car.

I have drawn a blank now and have no idea where to go. I still want to place blame on the solenoid but don't want to spend the money on a new starter to find out it is not the problem. With smoke showing up it sounds like a resistence problem to me. I am puzzled why the car would start one minute and then not the next. This is the reason I hate wiring problems!

 

[mean88]

Well Jds, I used 600amp double 0 guage wire for my relocation. When I had carb problems and I tried starting the car for extended periods of time(more than a few seconds) the big azz 600 amp wire got real warm.

I am using a 4 guage wire for an extra ground on the back of the alt. I grounded the batt to the chassis in the rear, and then ran the extra 4guage wire up and bolted it to the back of the alt housing with a self threading bolt. This helped alot with the charging issues I had since the unibody doesnt transmit high amps well through the spot welds for a decent ground.

Where are your alt and starter from? I went through 8 alternators, until I took my Advance auto parts 3g alt to a professional and had it "rebuilt". He pulled it apart and showed me that they use used parts and aftermarket regulators instead of new "motorcraft" parts. I havent had a problem with the charging since. I also had trouble with my starter turning hard. Since I have a large positive wire, I knew it was the starter. I upgraded to a powermaster ministarter and havent had an issue since.

The problem with the relocation is for every foot the resistance of the wire is greater. You can see upwards of 3-4 volts of drop or more when trying to start the engine.

If you are seeing smoke, or smelling it there is some real heavy resistance somewhere. My guess is that you(assuming the starter is good) arent getting enough amperage to the starter to turn the motor. The clicking is the solenoid kicking in, but the motor doesnt have sufficient power to turn the engine so it stalls and the wires get hot. You could also have a loose connection somewhere. Check all connections first and foremost. If you got the car started with it like this before, then it most likely isnt the relocation thats the problem.

Usually a dead battery is caused by a shorted regulator on the alt, or a short somewhere else. Do you have a starter solenoid mounted on the fender like my 88, or is it just a trigger wire running to the solenoid on the starter? Let me know how the system on your car is wired up in detail, and I may be able to help.
Your friend from Green Bay
Ted

 

[jdsgallops]

Ted the 94-95 cars come from the factory with the mini-starter. Thus no solenoid on the fenderwell. I wish it was because things would be so much easier to diagnoise. Not to mention my hand wouldn't be all scratch up right now. It is a tight fit getting past the long tubes and K member.

We have a really good local auto electric only shop here. This shop just rebuilt the alternator. I am ready to just take the whole car to them and have them fix all the little electrical issues. I am not going to pay $75+ for a tow though. I do not know where the starter is from.

What most people are missing in my problem is the fact that the car started just fine the previous 2 times less than 2 minutes before. I literally installed the alternator, hooked up the battery and then started the car the first time. Once I saw it was charging properly I shut it off and hooked up my timing light. It again started with no problem. The light did not match the timing marks so I shut the car off and loosened the distributor. I went to start the car again and had nothing. Nothing but the dreaded click. IMO if the starter was going bad it should have shown signs the previous 2 times. Which means something else had to happen to cause the starter to not get enough power to start the car.

As far as how I have the car wired I have 1/0 power directly to the solenoid. Then the stock 2 gauge wire from the starter to the fuse box. The alternator is hooked in here with 4 gauge. After searching on this subject I think it is in my best interest to run the 4 gauge from the alt to the battery. I need to fix this problem first though. For ground I have 1/0 from the battery to the quad shock mount. Then in the front of the car I have 1/0 from the block to the front frame where the charcoal canister use to be. There was 0 trouble starting the car with this setup. I only had charging problems, which hopefully will be solved with the alt to the battery connection.

Thanks for the help Ted. Remind me to buy you a beer next time I'm in town.

 

[mean88]

If it started fine, then I would guess the starter may have issues. It sounds like you have the thing wired properly. Do you have a cut off switch installed? I do, but I need a 4 pole switch to get the car to cut off when the power is cut. Right now it will run off the alternator if I switch the battery off. When you change your wiring setup around, do a search on the switch on here. There is a thread or two that have diagrams on how to properly wire the system. Good luck. Thanks alot
Ted

 

[jdsgallops]

Well it is not a starter issue. I looked over all the wiring and saw nothing out of place. I had to run into town anyway so I pulled the starter and went and got a new one. Put it in and at first all it did was spin. Moved the wires around, hooked up the battery again and hit the key. Same annoying clicking. Now I'm pissed. I pulled the power wire out of the car. I looked the whole thing over and there is nothing wrong with it. While I had it out though it gave me a ground wire. So I hooked up the 15ft long cable as my ground in the original engine mounting point and then put the orignal 4 gauge cable back on and move the battery to the front. Wa La no more problem. At least I can get the car working to hit the track sunday. It means finding a different place to mount my MSD box, as I have it in the battery tray right now, but that is minor.

Since it will start in the front and the power cable is obviously good I wonder why my grounds all of a sudden became bad???

 

[mean88]

Like I said, I have a separate 4 ga ground going from the alt to the batt, a ground going from batt to chassis, and I still have the ground strap at the firewall attatched to the bell housing. You cant have too many grounds with a relocation like this! Glad you got her running.
Ted

 

[Big Top GT]

Are you using new wires and ground straps with the new starter or is it the same stuff that was on the car before the rebuild?

Usually, when you get the symptoms about which you're complaining it's one of two things.

1. A cooked starter from long tubes.
2. Corroded wires.

The radiant heat from a set of long tubes along with the close proximity of the primaries can cause even a newer starter (usually when they're cheap or rebuilds) to seize/stick.

Additionally, most people mistakenly think because a wire looks good on the outside, it's good on the inside.

I'd bet a dollar if you pull the wire off the starter you'll find the main power wire is corroded beyond use on the inside.

Direct wiring it and having it function properly only reinforces my feeling on that suspicion.

Good luck either way.

Alan

 

[jdsgallops]

You owe me a dollar. I do charge interest so next time you come through town pay up!

 

[Big Top GT]

You didn't answer my question: are you using the old power or ground wires for the starter or did you replace them with new?

Either way, I can't afford the dollar. I'm saving up for the Corvette I can't afford.

 

[jdsgallops]

If you would have bothered to read the whole post instead of just knowing the answer before reading the question like you always do I wouldn't have to answer your question.

Your up to $2.

 

[Big Top GT]

Are we going to start this again? You know I read the post. All you said was you checked the wires.

As always, I'll refresh your memory...

3) I visually checked the power cable. Again no damage and proper connections. I have this run direct to the solenoid with 1/0 welding cable.

Taking the wire out and "looking at it" isn't checking it. You need to pull back a little bit of the sheath.

Your being a jerk-off and I'm still trying to help you find a solution. If you're just here to be a jerk off, I'm sure there are some people who will post in your "hey, Alan's attacking poor, little me over on the Corral" post you're undoubtedly going to make.

Maybe you should just ask for tech support over there.

I'll let you keep the 2 bucks. You can put it towards a new power wire.

It's funny; even having been banned I'm still one of the most popular, and interesting people over there.