Why not just use the stock computer and wiring harness and get a Quarterhorse?

 

i'd have to read up on the QH but from a few things I saw recently it seemed their customer support sucked or they didn't really have any. Is it plug and play and self tuning or do you have to plug up a laptop and change/tweak things?

 

I can't answer all your answers specifically but I can say that their pnp units are designed to replace the existing computer and use the factory harness.
Yes, you will need a computer to tune and make changes. You will use Tuner Studio to do this and it may come with a code to download it as part of your purchase.
There will probably be factory tunes to choose from then you can modify the tune from there.

As far as street use: it's probably not CARB approved and for this reason they can't legally sell it for "street" cars but "for off road use only".

ks

 

oh ok so if I told them it was i'll be tracking and racing, they might sell it to me lol? But I wouldn't want to go down that road anyway because I'll likely need support from them maybe.

 

I have a supercharged ‘93 fox body at the shop right now that has one of the older MicroSquirt plug and play deal’s. Stock harness. Converted to MAP. Runs good.

The biggest issue we have with that is the lack of tuners who are willing to work with micro/mega squirt. Everyone around us either wants a holley or oem (hptuners) setup to tune. We ended up having to use a remote tuner, Leech Motorsports. Its good but not as good as an in person dyno tune. Just something to think about.

 

i'm a little bit of a noob when it comes to some of the tuning terms lol.

Map?

Plug and play but you hooked up a laptop and made some changes at tuner studio? Base tune was ok to get it started and such?

When you made the changes I guess you knew what you were looking for, to change to/try, ect.

 

If you’re looking at a ms2pnp, I would highly looking into a pimpxs from stinger. It’s Ms3x based and a much better setup IMO. Sequential is the way to go, as the one you have pictured is batch fire.

 

Ok I'll check it out again

 

But also I want to point out that I'm thinking about letting Doug @ Prestige Motorsports build my engine and it's just going to be a mild 408 or 427 build because the car will not see the track it will be just a nice weekend Street driver and I also have two other cars so I'm not trying to Max the build. It should see somewhere around between 420-450 rwhp and torque. Doug suggested I use the Holley EFI which is about $1566 and he definitely wants to test the engine and do some tuning which he does with are all of his bills. I'm not sure why the customer should have to pay for the dino time to test even though I guess it's a peace of mind for the customer. But so I really don't want to pay that much and I don't think I necessarily need a Holley setup or anything that intriquite so to speak but it's that, or one of the one you guys are talking about which is about $900 Plus, or dyno tune in through my tuner for roughly between $5- $750 ish. I must say also that whatever build this is it's likely going to stay like that forever I'm not as I'm probably not going to mess with it again or anytime soon because like I said I have two other cars and want to show them some attention as well

 

In my opinion there is no reason to upgrade to a holley for your setup. The stock computer will get it done, no problem. I'm making 560 whp, stock computer with a QH. Unless you need the Holley for a specific function, it's a waste of money for your build in my opinion. 450hp is nothing out of a 351w based build.

 

Gotcha. So give me a quick rundown I know the I think I looked up the Motes QH and it's about $250 and then I have to buy the software right? After I swap out the EC you and plug everything up it will have a base tune that I can start off with and then pretty much just go from there on making adjustments? At that point I will read up on numbers and values and things to look for so I will have a quick reference of what to do and what not to do. Is that about the gist of it?

Based on your answer of what you say the cost will likely be I'm just going to give a quick comparison. I know letting my tuner do it it's going to be anywhere from 5 to about 800 bucks ish. The only thing is I will have to get with him on rather it will be best for me to get a mail-order tune to get started and then once I get the car to him he can tweak. So bad versus doing the QH and then the difference will be well I'm thinking going the qh route it will be cheaper and I will be able to I guess maybe learn and do the same things for tunER will likely be able to do and be able to make other changes down the road? Are those pretty much the only two differences? Though I won't be making any changes especially to this car when I build it anytime soon maybe 5-10 years LOL who knows

 

Also here's an email from Moates. I was thinking about getting remote tuning done but I don't think I'll have to. So here's what I was told as for the QH:

"You should be having this conversation with your tuner. If you're not going to be tuning your vehicle yourself, you should make sure you have what whomever is doing the work wants to use."

"You would need a QuarterHorse hardware (we sell, $249) and Binary Editor software (we do not sell, available directly from its author at www.eecanalyzer.net ) to be able to log data and make tune changes. The QuarterHorse has an onboard battery that will die in a few years. We HIGHLY discourage people who are not tuning their own cars from leaving a QH installed permanently. Instead, we recommend transferring the tune from the QH to a standard chip module ( F3v2 $75) with the Jaybird programmer ($75) after tuning is complete. Any tuner who is familiar with our products should be able to program a F3 chip for you, too."

 

I used to tune my 94/95 with quarterhorse and BE and it made good power. However, once I did messed with megasquirt/tuner studios based systems I quickly abandoned quarterhorse and made the switch. I had a decent understanding of how tuning with BE worked, but it is far easier to understand tuner studios.

 

You dont need BE if you use @Decipha or tune it yourself using one of his free base tunes. His tunes use TunerPro RT which is free to use but you should pay the 40$ to register if youre using the software to tune. You dont need an F3V2 but its best to replace your QH with an F3V2 and Jaybird after you have completed your tune so you dont have to worry about the battery dying in the QH. I think Decipha can burn your final tune on an F3 and send it to you (for a fee I assume) but I am not sure on that. I still have the QH installed in my car, its been installed for 6 or so years now. I just replace the battery every couple years to be safe. If youre planning on using a tuner, Decipha can get you taken care of. If you really want to learn about it head over to efidynotuning.com and check out all the writeups and look at the Preimum member information which will tell you how much a remote tune costs and what is involved.

 

Cool great information man thanks for being very informative. So if the battery dies is it something where you can be driving in the battery died in your car just start driving funny? Is it a matter of if one day you started up and it's acting funny or whatever and you assume it's the battery if you just replace the battery will it be good to go? I don't necessarily have to really mess with it myself to be honest I mean I'm not going to be I don't even know how much longer I will be in the car game and I am just fine letting somebody else do it to be honest. So I have to decide whether I want to get a moates and let my tuner tune it or just matter fact I'm about to call him now and see if he could do a mail order and then I get the car running and bring it to him to tweak. If that if he can do that I may just go that route. I think the only difference in me getting a Moats from my thinking would be so changes could be made later but I'm still would need the Binary Editor. So if I'm not going to go the Binary Editor route then it's probably going to be the same thing letting him do it or letting decipher do it remote.

 

Just called my tuner and he doesn't do mail-order Tunes it seems just for the liability aspect of if something is you know could be wrong or mechanically wrong with the car.

Let me ask this question so is it an automatic that the TPS sensor and the idle stop on the throttle body may need to be adjusted a little bit when you fire the car up? I know the fuel pressure will have to be adjusted and I will have an adjustable regulator so I can just switch it on not started and make sure the fuel pressure is good. I was watching a video where a guy was tuning with a megasquirt and I believe he switched the car on without starting it and what are you turned on tunerstudio or whatever it was he turned on the fuel pump so that's a little bit different I guess and what I would think to do. I was thinking you could have just switched it on and checked the fuel pressure or whatever and adjust it.

 

Megasquirt has an autotune feature if you buy the full version of tunerstudio and have a wideband wired into the megasquirt, it only adjusts fuel though so that's something to think about.

 

probably not something that would be helpful to me in that regard

 

When the battery dies, the tune gets corrupted. The car wont run when it happens. The fix is to install a new battery and reload the tune. Ive never had it happen and I have gone as long as 3 years without replacing the battery. Thats why an F3v2 is a good idea. That cant happen because there is no battery. Hell, if you get to the point and you want an F3v2 and dont want to buy a jaybird and cant find someone to do it, send me your F3v2 and ill burn it for you. I have a jaybird, I think I actually have 2. You know, you can always sell the QH on here and make your money back on that too. They are for sale on here on a regular basis. I think there is one or 2 in the FS section now. If you get a used one, make sure to get one with the replaceable battery, not the older style with the soldered battery.

You shouldn't need to adjust your fuel pressure. Stock pressure works fine. There are reasons to change it but your build isnt one of those cases from what I can tell. As long as you have a fuel pump that can support your power goals, you are fine. You should set it at 40psi with the pump running engine off, or you can do it engine running with the vacuum line removed. There is a diagnostic port in the passenger side back corner of the engine bay. You can jumper the fuel pump relay with a wire or paperclip and set base fuel pressure. Thats the easiest way I have found to do it.

The TPS is really easy to set up and is actually part of the tuning process. One of the first steps after getting it running is to adjust the throttle blade so the IAC reads a specific reading. As long as the TPS voltage is between like .5 and 1.1v, the computer will see it as closed. It simply takes the lowest reading it gets and sets that as the closed throttle point. It doesnt have to be the .97v myth that was floating around these boards for years. FYI, the TPS itself is not adjustable unless you have a specific throttle body that has the adjuster ring. 90% of throttle bodies do not have that feature because its not needed. TPRT has a gauge display that lists all of the important paramaters on one page. The IAC percentage and TP_Rel information are both on that display so its really easy to set up.

BE or TPRT doesnt have an autotune feature but, EFI dynotuning has the MBT chart that tells you where you should be setting timing based on your heads so its pretty easy to dial in timing. If you use Deciphas base tunes, his tune has has histograms that tell you your fuel error and how much to adjust by maf voltage. Its not autotune but it tells you how much to change so its basically the same thing. You just manually enter the data instead of having it auto set the cells.

 

When the battery dies, the tune gets corrupted. The car wont run when it happens. The fix is to install a new battery and reload the tune. Ive never had it happen and I have gone as long as 3 years without replacing the battery. Thats why an F3v2 is a good idea. That cant happen because there is no battery. Hell, if you get to the point and you want an F3v2 and dont want to buy a jaybird and cant find someone to do it, send me your F3v2 and ill burn it for you. I have a jaybird, I think I actually have 2. You know, you can always sell the QH on here and make your money back on that too. They are for sale on here on a regular basis. I think there is one or 2 in the FS section now. If you get a used one, make sure to get one with the replaceable battery, not the older style with the soldered battery.

You shouldn't need to adjust your fuel pressure. Stock pressure works fine. There are reasons to change it but your build isnt one of those cases from what I can tell. As long as you have a fuel pump that can support your power goals, you are fine. You should set it at 40psi with the pump running engine off, or you can do it engine running with the vacuum line removed. There is a diagnostic port in the passenger side back corner of the engine bay. You can jumper the fuel pump relay with a wire or paperclip and set base fuel pressure. Thats the easiest way I have found to do it.

The TPS is really easy to set up and is actually part of the tuning process. One of the first steps after getting it running is to adjust the throttle blade so the IAC reads a specific reading. As long as the TPS voltage is between like .5 and 1.1v, the computer will see it as closed. It simply takes the lowest reading it gets and sets that as the closed throttle point. It doesnt have to be the .97v myth that was floating around these boards for years. FYI, the TPS itself is not adjustable unless you have a specific throttle body that has the adjuster ring. 90% of throttle bodies do not have that feature because its not needed. TPRT has a gauge display that lists all of the important paramaters on one page. The IAC percentage and TP_Rel information are both on that display so its really easy to set up.

BE or TPRT doesnt have an autotune feature but, EFI dynotuning has the MBT chart that tells you where you should be setting timing based on your heads so its pretty easy to dial in timing. If you use Deciphas base tunes, his tune has has histograms that tell you your fuel error and how much to adjust by maf voltage. Its not autotune but it tells you how much to change so its basically the same thing. You just manually enter the data instead of having it auto set the cells.

I definitely don't want the battery to die then and thanks.

I will have an adjustable fp regulator by the way. Will I be able to just switch the car on before the first fire and adjust the fp or it needs to be jumpered?

Yeah I remember messing with setting the tps back in the day and fooling around with Idle set procedures. I'll likely run and accufab 90 tb; are you saying the tps will basically be set when you mess with the throttle blade? Or adjusted at the laptop?

Gotcha. Yeah I just have to see which route I'd prefer overall of QH vs letting my tuner do it. I might have to trailer it 2 hrs since he doesn't do mail tunes for me to get it started up. I'll just have to consider apples to apples from one way vs another.

I do know that the setup will likely stay forever or a minimum of 10 yrs or more. I have 2 other cars too and 2 trucks and so they need attention too. So it's not like I'll be messing with the tune and changing up/ect.

Here's my intended combo and if Prestige Motorsports build it some of the pieces they use for the particular setup I'm thinking about:

427 Ford Small Block Stroker Crate Engine: F427-HR-C1

Find all the details on our Ford Small Block F427-HR-C1 engine here. Prestige Motorsports in Concord, NC.

www.prestigemoto.com

The cam specs are 243/251 @ .050, .565/.549 lift, 110 lobe separation
TFS R intake more than likely
Prestige Motorsports Aluminum heads, 2.02/1.60 Valves,
59-cc Chambers, 185-cc Intake, Bare head, Pair
1 3/4 LT's
Fuel injected
90 mm tb with a 92 or 97 mm MAF

 

I told the guy I have a 95 that I'm going to do a 408 or 427 nice lil mild street build, no track and was checking into something that's plug and play or very easy and doesn't require a lot of harness changes, ect. That's what I'm thinking right now anyway and just inquiring on some things I saw on google. It seems like the MSPNP2 just replaces the stock ecm, I don't see any wiring from the image. I called summit first and a female answered and she didn't really know much about them so that's when I called DIY. Basically I was told that they don't carry anything that's for street use. Said ever since the EPA has been cracking down really hard lately or something. He sounded like he was afraid to talk and I was trying to find out if they ever sold anything for street use or what. Anyway enlighten me on what he likely mean/meant in regards to this. Is this particular one plug and play? Still have to hook up to a laptop and go to the program and make changes? I was also looking for videos of someone from start to finish kinda sorta plugging up and explaining things.

DIYAutoTune MSPNP2-EEC4B8 DIYAutoTune MegaSquirt Gen 2 Plug-and-Play Engine Management Systems | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - DIYAutoTune MegaSquirt Gen 2 Plug-and-Play Engine Management Systems with qualifying orders of $99. Shop Engine Management Systems at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

This is likely why they are hesitant about potential street use of the products EPA Targets Colorado Tuner With Huge Fine

Rusty

 

This is likely why they are hesitant about potential street use of the products EPA Targets Colorado Tuner With Huge Fine

Rusty

Ohh wow😳😡

 

I would do the moates. I know this is an MS group but the stock ECU with a QH will work great for the setup you’re describing.

 

yes over the past few days of reading up and talking to some folks and a guy that does them I feel confident in going that route

 

Little late to the party, but standalone is THE way to go. I have and used the quarterhorse. It's 10x harder to use than my megasquirt with tunerstudio.

I had a turbo 2.3 and turbo 5.0 running, and drivable easily within a day using a megasquirt. MS1 and MS3

The EEC-IV has tables on tables on tables on tables. My most miserable driving and tuning was with a quarterhorse.

 

The EEC-IV has tables on tables on tables on tables. My most miserable driving and tuning was with a quarterhorse.

A-men!!!!

 

I don't use MS but I will agree about BE. If you spoke binary it was a great setup. But a novice like me I got lost easily. People talk about cost, but forget about what your own time is worth...