Post too long? Don't want to read? BUY THE H model!
I'm going on a rant to hopefully spare others the same nonsense I just figured out. I'm sure I'm not the first person to deal with this, and I'll take my beating as I'll call out below, but I'll be damned if this isn't some nonsense.
Here we go:
Doing an H/C/I swap. Cam/timing chain are in and on. Heads are on. One header is on, but somehow misplaced the gasket for the other. No sweat, I'll drop the lifters in and work on the timing cover. NOPE.
I go to drop the lifters in and only like 2/3 will drop in. The others are somehow too tall? But these are factory replacements according to LMR.
But wait, there's a difference in models (and of course price). Yep, I knew that when I ordered. I won't be spinning this engine past 6k, so I didn't get the more expensive ones. And since LMR says the cheaper ones are direct factory replacement, that shouldn't be an issue, right? WRONG. They AREN'T DIRECT REPLACEMENT. I seriously want to punch LMR's website in the face right now.
Let's examine the two models of lifters. There's one letter difference between the two:
M-6500-R302 ($119)
versus
M-6500-R302H ($169)
I'll refer to them as "non-H" and "H" for clarity.
On the non-H page, I quote:
"These Ford Performance stock style replacement lifters are a direct replacement for the factory lifters in 1985-1995 Ford Mustang 5.0L. These M-6500-R302 rollers are a hydraulic tappet design with a roller tip so they make almost no noise and free up some power in the process. These are compatible with stock or aftermarket roller cams only and use stock or aftermarket 5/16 pushrods. They are not for use with flat tappet cams. If you are building a roller block from scratch, or any of the FRPP 5.0L based short blocks, use these lifters with the roller cam of your choice and an FRPP lifter retainer kit M-6253-A50. For higher revving engines, take a look at the M-6500-R302H as they allow for an additional 200-300RPM to the top of the rev range. These hydraulic lifters can only be used with roller cam compatible blocks. They cannot be used if retrofitting a non-roller block to a roller cam."
Sweet! It says DIRECT REPLACEMENT FOR THE FACTORY LIFTERS.
But then further below they sneak this BS in:
"These lifters are 1/16" (.0625") taller than stock. Removal of heads is necessary for installation. Lifters M6500R302H does not require the removal of the head for installation."
ARE YOU EFFING KIDDING ME? WHO WANTS TO REMOVE THE HEADS TO INSTALL FREAKING LIFTERS?????? AND WHY DO YOU SAY THEY ARE DIRECT REPLACEMENT IF THEY'RE NOT?????
So as you also see in that note, the more expensive H version are ACTUALLY the same height as the factory lifters, and they'll rev (slightly) higher.
Needless to say, if I had known that, I would have just spend the extra $60 to begin with and been done with it. BUT NOOOOOOOO....
I have now ordered the H model from Amazon so I can get them here before the weekend and keep going on my assembly.
I know, reading is fundamental and I should have caught it originally when I bought the first set of lifters. But hell, the non-H set explicitly said they were DIRECT REPLACEMENT, so I skipped the rest of the tech info down the page. Yep, my bad, send me hate mail and laugh. I may deserve it for not reading, but I'll be damned if it's not ridiculous to call the non-H lifters direct replacement but then include a note that pretty much says "well, they aren't actually, so....". That's horse##### in my opinion.
And yep, I broke out the calipers and measured. They are of course taller. And also note the change in the shape of the head around the roller itself. The non-H model is much larger and isn't beveled. No wonder it's a pain in the arse (and not possible) to install them without removing the heads. I still don't understand why anyone would want to put themselves through the BS of removing heads to swap lifters should it be necessary.
Here's the pics so you all can see. Lesson learned on my part, hopefully nobody else has to go through this crap.
Pic #1 - Factory lifter that came out of my car. It's 2.515 inches long.
Pic #2 - The non-H Ford Racing NOT FACTORY REPLACEMENT lifter. It's 2.538 inches long
Pic #3 - Comparing the two roller tips. Note the gigantic difference in how the bevel is cut on each one. Also note the difference in (what I'll say is unnecessary) shrouding of the roller itself.
(I don't know why it inserted the first two pics upside down, but you get the gist anyway)
I'm going on a rant to hopefully spare others the same nonsense I just figured out. I'm sure I'm not the first person to deal with this, and I'll take my beating as I'll call out below, but I'll be damned if this isn't some nonsense.
Here we go:
Doing an H/C/I swap. Cam/timing chain are in and on. Heads are on. One header is on, but somehow misplaced the gasket for the other. No sweat, I'll drop the lifters in and work on the timing cover. NOPE.
I go to drop the lifters in and only like 2/3 will drop in. The others are somehow too tall? But these are factory replacements according to LMR.
But wait, there's a difference in models (and of course price). Yep, I knew that when I ordered. I won't be spinning this engine past 6k, so I didn't get the more expensive ones. And since LMR says the cheaper ones are direct factory replacement, that shouldn't be an issue, right? WRONG. They AREN'T DIRECT REPLACEMENT. I seriously want to punch LMR's website in the face right now.
Let's examine the two models of lifters. There's one letter difference between the two:
M-6500-R302 ($119)
versus
M-6500-R302H ($169)
I'll refer to them as "non-H" and "H" for clarity.
On the non-H page, I quote:
"These Ford Performance stock style replacement lifters are a direct replacement for the factory lifters in 1985-1995 Ford Mustang 5.0L. These M-6500-R302 rollers are a hydraulic tappet design with a roller tip so they make almost no noise and free up some power in the process. These are compatible with stock or aftermarket roller cams only and use stock or aftermarket 5/16 pushrods. They are not for use with flat tappet cams. If you are building a roller block from scratch, or any of the FRPP 5.0L based short blocks, use these lifters with the roller cam of your choice and an FRPP lifter retainer kit M-6253-A50. For higher revving engines, take a look at the M-6500-R302H as they allow for an additional 200-300RPM to the top of the rev range. These hydraulic lifters can only be used with roller cam compatible blocks. They cannot be used if retrofitting a non-roller block to a roller cam."
Sweet! It says DIRECT REPLACEMENT FOR THE FACTORY LIFTERS.
But then further below they sneak this BS in:
"These lifters are 1/16" (.0625") taller than stock. Removal of heads is necessary for installation. Lifters M6500R302H does not require the removal of the head for installation."
ARE YOU EFFING KIDDING ME? WHO WANTS TO REMOVE THE HEADS TO INSTALL FREAKING LIFTERS?????? AND WHY DO YOU SAY THEY ARE DIRECT REPLACEMENT IF THEY'RE NOT?????
So as you also see in that note, the more expensive H version are ACTUALLY the same height as the factory lifters, and they'll rev (slightly) higher.
Needless to say, if I had known that, I would have just spend the extra $60 to begin with and been done with it. BUT NOOOOOOOO....
I have now ordered the H model from Amazon so I can get them here before the weekend and keep going on my assembly.
I know, reading is fundamental and I should have caught it originally when I bought the first set of lifters. But hell, the non-H set explicitly said they were DIRECT REPLACEMENT, so I skipped the rest of the tech info down the page. Yep, my bad, send me hate mail and laugh. I may deserve it for not reading, but I'll be damned if it's not ridiculous to call the non-H lifters direct replacement but then include a note that pretty much says "well, they aren't actually, so....". That's horse##### in my opinion.
And yep, I broke out the calipers and measured. They are of course taller. And also note the change in the shape of the head around the roller itself. The non-H model is much larger and isn't beveled. No wonder it's a pain in the arse (and not possible) to install them without removing the heads. I still don't understand why anyone would want to put themselves through the BS of removing heads to swap lifters should it be necessary.
Here's the pics so you all can see. Lesson learned on my part, hopefully nobody else has to go through this crap.
Pic #1 - Factory lifter that came out of my car. It's 2.515 inches long.
Pic #2 - The non-H Ford Racing NOT FACTORY REPLACEMENT lifter. It's 2.538 inches long
Pic #3 - Comparing the two roller tips. Note the gigantic difference in how the bevel is cut on each one. Also note the difference in (what I'll say is unnecessary) shrouding of the roller itself.
(I don't know why it inserted the first two pics upside down, but you get the gist anyway)
