Hi, so I just finished installing my Astro A5 trans just freshly put together and I am running into an issue. I noticed that in order to get it to shift into gear consistently I needed to tighten my clutch cable (turn firewall adjuster out from firewall) almost all the way. There are only a couple threads left on the interior side of the firewall where the adjuster comes through. I a using the Maximum Motorsports 3 piece set (billet quadrant, firewall adjuster and they supply the factory clutch cable). I have a stock bellhousing, stock replacement steel flywheel, Ram Powergrip clutch and the aforementioned astro a5 26 spline trans. I am able to drive the car and perform shifts but at times there is a little trouble getting into gear (especially 1st gear). As a test to make sure the clutch disk is released enough Tony at Astro told me to push the clutch in to the floor, count to 4 seconds then try to put it in reverse (it should go into reverse with no issue or grinding), the 4 seconds give the input shaft time to slow down.) My setup does not due this so I am convinced I am not getting enough release when the clutch pedal is dropped to the floor. Upon further examination when I had my wife push on the clutch pedal while I viewed the fork As soon as the pedal travels all the way down to the floor, the fork makes contact with the bellhousing which is probably not good. I am assuming that the release I need is somewhere even further than the point when the fork touches the bellhousing. When the clutch pedal is not being pressed the fork is just about in the middle of the opening in the bellhousing. I was told by Ram that I want the fork to be slightly angled to the rear of the car when the pedal is not being pressed. I probably have some wear on the ball stud and clutch fork (come to think of it the fork did seem to fit kind of loose on the stud.) I am not sure if a new ball stud and fork will be enough to give me the end result desired or do I need to space the clutch fork pivot ball closer to the pressure plate? Anyway I guess the trans has to come back out or will this condition improve as the clutch breaks in to where the fork is as far forward right now as it will ever go? If I do have to remove the trans again is there a way to check the fork throw before re installing the trans (I am thinking no because the input shaft needs to be in the clutch disk to test for throw? Just trying not to have to keep pulling the trans in and out. Is there anything with my current setup that I am overlooking that could be leading to this fork contacting the bell? I can actually drive the car like this but you can feel something isn't right with the shifting being that it is difficult to get into gear. Just don't want to mess up that very expensive (to me at least) astro A5 trans I just put in. Please help/ opinions/ suggestions, all wanted. Thank you
SLEDHEAD
if this clutch is NOT OEM
the stack heights of these aftermarket kits are all over the place
therefore you need to verify the geometry is correct to get the correct release distance applied
did you try using the spacer MM supplies in its kit?
there is another thread here about this
the stack heights of these aftermarket kits are all over the place
therefore you need to verify the geometry is correct to get the correct release distance applied
did you try using the spacer MM supplies in its kit?
there is another thread here about this
I have the spacer on the end of the cable at the quadrant. MM said I can put another spacer on but I don't know if that will help my situation? I imagine if I put another spacer on it would allow me to thread the firewall adjuster back into the firewall some but don't know if this will give me more disengagement before fork hits bellhousing. I am open to input I'd rather not pull the trans back out. In my mind the extra spacer would make the cable tighter but then would I have too much tension of the throw out bearing against the fingers when my foot is off the clutch pedal?
Can you direct me to this other thread about this topic. Thanks
Can you direct me to this other thread about this topic. Thanks
if you dont want to pull the belhousing and measure/recheck the install
try another spacer and see where that gets you, that firewall adjuster needs to be sticking out a min distance so you can add slack as the clutch wears
the other thread is pretty recent so scan for it or search, i dont have time or desire to search for you
try another spacer and see where that gets you, that firewall adjuster needs to be sticking out a min distance so you can add slack as the clutch wears
the other thread is pretty recent so scan for it or search, i dont have time or desire to search for you
Anybody else use 2 of these cable spacers (MM calls them widgets) to get the clutch fork to stop contacting the bellhousing?
I was also thinking about clearancing the bell where the fork makes contact when pedal is fully depressed (probably only need to shave 1/8 inch from bell window at forward edge. Thoughts?
How far back is the fork at rest?
If the clutch stack is shorter, or the tob is shorter you need to regain the correct geometry with use of an adjustable pivot
Simply allowing the fork to move farther forward, you risk contacting the pressure plate
If the clutch stack is shorter, or the tob is shorter you need to regain the correct geometry with use of an adjustable pivot
Simply allowing the fork to move farther forward, you risk contacting the pressure plate
Ok. I will have to check how close it comes to the plate. The fork is in the middle of the opening when the pedal is at rest. I talked to ram clutch tech support they said they have clearances the bell before for the same scenario as I have and said it will be fine. Thinks I need 1/4 inch or less of clearance.
I run the same clutch in a T5. I also use the MM kit. My firewall adjuster is turned out nearly as far as it can go. Everything works excellent. I do not use the supplied spacer.
Jack from MM suggested I purchase a digital fish scale. I bought a very compact unit so it will fit in between the clutch pedal and floor. The scale has a hook on one end. Hook it on the clutch pedal. Now grab hold of the scale and push it parallel to the clutch pedal travel. It's very important that you follow the natural arc of the pedal and don't push the scale straight down towards the floor. The proper scale reading should be 5-8lbs. Push the scale down until it reads 5lbs. Now release the clutch pedal just a tad and you should here a click. If not; adjust the firewall adjuster and try again.
Here's the unit I use:
https://www.rapala.com/rapala/fishing-tools/scales/compact-touch-screen-50lb.-scale/RCTDS50.html?cgid=rapala-fishingTools-scales#start=8&cgid=rapala-fishingTools-scales
I had to shorten the hook.
Jack from MM suggested I purchase a digital fish scale. I bought a very compact unit so it will fit in between the clutch pedal and floor. The scale has a hook on one end. Hook it on the clutch pedal. Now grab hold of the scale and push it parallel to the clutch pedal travel. It's very important that you follow the natural arc of the pedal and don't push the scale straight down towards the floor. The proper scale reading should be 5-8lbs. Push the scale down until it reads 5lbs. Now release the clutch pedal just a tad and you should here a click. If not; adjust the firewall adjuster and try again.
Here's the unit I use:
https://www.rapala.com/rapala/fishing-tools/scales/compact-touch-screen-50lb.-scale/RCTDS50.html?cgid=rapala-fishingTools-scales#start=8&cgid=rapala-fishingTools-scales
I had to shorten the hook.
Might want to take a look at a Mcleod part # 16515. Adjustable throwout bearing. That should put your fork to the back half of its swing with the pedal up. And off the forward edge of the bell with the pedal down. You can machine the spacer down on a surface grinder if you have to. It comes with 2 spacers. You only need 1 going by what you said. And I think that will be better than running 2 widgets. I don't think I would trust the heat shrink holding up with 2 of them myself. If you toss things around in your head after looking at a pic of the adjustable TOB and spacers, and what you have going on, I think you will know if that will work. Good luck with your Astro! Damn good tranny.
So tonight I removed about 1/4 inch from the bellhousing so now the fork doesn't hit the bellhousing with the pedal to the floor. It still seems like I need a little more release as it's still a little hard to shift into reverse and forward. I only have 2 threads of the firewall adjuster showing when view from under the dash as my adjuster is out pretty far. Any ideas what I can do to get just a smidge more release. Not sure why I am having such an issue?
I am being told that my fork position at rest NEEDS to be a little more angled back to the rear of the car which mine is not. Can you tell me why a further back starting position would help my condition? It would seem like that would make the problem worse as right now my throw out bearing is against the plate already with some force when the pedal is up. I am already almost maxed on adjustment trying to make the fork move far enough forward to fully release the clutch. Wouldn't moving my starting point (angling fork towards rear of bellhousing ) give me less final movement of the fork when the pedal is pressed down? I am more than confused here.
I am being told that my fork position at rest NEEDS to be a little more angled back to the rear of the car which mine is not. Can you tell me why a further back starting position would help my condition? It would seem like that would make the problem worse as right now my throw out bearing is against the plate already with some force when the pedal is up. I am already almost maxed on adjustment trying to make the fork move far enough forward to fully release the clutch. Wouldn't moving my starting point (angling fork towards rear of bellhousing ) give me less final movement of the fork when the pedal is pressed down? I am more than confused here.
you wasted your time
you have been told you have incorrect geometry
and tried the easy way out
there is a geometrical reason why you need to start farther back
that can only be achieved by moving the other end fork out.
but hey,,,,,,,,keep on grinding......
you have been told you have incorrect geometry
and tried the easy way out
there is a geometrical reason why you need to start farther back
that can only be achieved by moving the other end fork out.
but hey,,,,,,,,keep on grinding......
Still looking for reason why the fork needs to start further back. As I see it there is less of a chance for the fork to hit the front of the bell but I don't see how I can get more clutch release by moving the starting point of the fork away from the pressure plate. If someone could please verify that is what's needed here with an explanation of WHY instead of "you have been told to do it" that would be great. Thanks
This problem has nothing to do with the clutch cable length. It is a problem with the height of the clutch PP fingers being too short (too far forward). Assuming you keep the clutch, the only solution is to change the pivot height of the ball stud or change the height of the throw out bearing. One or both of these items needs to be made longer to fix the problem.
Ok. Looks like I will be pulling the trans. Is there a good way to know what height to make the adjustable pivot ball before I put the trans back in?
Ok everybody thanks for all the input. Trans is coming back out and I will go the adjustable ball stud route. Thanks for all the input so far. Much appreciated
Latest update. I pulled everything apart. Before I pulled the bellhousing and clutch out (after I removed the trans) I had my wife push the clutch pedal down. when the pedal got about 3/4 of the way down the clutch disk released enough to slip down between the flywheel and pressure plate. I was able to reach in through the trans hole of the bell and move the clutch disk up and down easily and forward and back very easily indicating to me that I must be getting enough release via the clutch fork and cable/adjuster/quadrant. Upon pulling the clutch disk out I noticed a bend in the metal near one of the clutch disk pads. When I lay that surface against the pressure plate surface on one side of the clutch disk the puck lays flat against the pp. on the puck that has the bend I am able to get a .020 feeler guage between both sides of the puck and the puck is only laying flat against the pressure plate where the bend is (see photos makes it very clear). the disk pucks to the left and right of the puck that has the bend are also affected and not laying flat against the pressure plate surface. I have no idea how this got bent? Anyone have any ideas? I guess I will need to put a new disk in it (only has about 40 miles on this one). I drilled a hole in my bellhousing so I can check the airgap once I get all this back together. Does it make sense that this bend is allowing the clutch disk to not fully disengage thus causing me to have a hard time shifting into 1st and reverse? I tried shifting the trans into all gears once it was removed from the car and it goes into 1st and reverse no problem. Thoughts??
pics are feeler guage showing space under the puck that is bent
puck on opposite side of damaged area of disk showing how flat it lays
damaged puck as it rests on pressure plate surface
close up of bent metal at clutch puck
pics are feeler guage showing space under the puck that is bent
puck on opposite side of damaged area of disk showing how flat it lays
damaged puck as it rests on pressure plate surface
close up of bent metal at clutch puck
Attachments
there is no way the friction disc can move up and down and side to side with the input shaft splined in
so how did the clutch get depressed with no input shaft?
something dont make sense in that story
also that damage looks like the disc was not aligned when the pressure plate was torqued
most likely install error on that clutch package
so how did the clutch get depressed with no input shaft?
something dont make sense in that story
also that damage looks like the disc was not aligned when the pressure plate was torqued
most likely install error on that clutch package
Trans was removed when we pushed the clutch pedal down. So the input shaft wasn't there at all. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I Had the alignment tool inserted in the disk and when I removed the alignment tool with the pedal still depressed thats when the disk fell down. I also used the alignment tool when I installed the disk so not sure how it got bent. If the trans weight hung at all on the disk before seating the trans flush against the bell upon trans installation could that have caused the bend? I since have purchased a trans jack to make the job easier when i re install trans
when the pressure plate was torqued is probably when the damage occured
the dummy shaft used may have not been perpendicular to the flywheel
it could have happened when you let it fall?? then the clutch was released?
the dummy shaft used may have not been perpendicular to the flywheel
it could have happened when you let it fall?? then the clutch was released?
Do you think the disk looking like this is causing contact with mating surfaces causing my input shaft to not slow down all the way when pedal is pushed down leading to difficulty getting into reverse (Makes sense to me but maybe I'm just being hopeful)
you have witness marks on the flywheel or press plate?
your geometry issue is still leading issue
your geometry issue is still leading issue
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