I am guessing you will be short of 450 and done before 6200

 

i was planning on a very similar build. Heres some great info in a thread i started. i got a lot of feedback and ultimately i decided to go with the AFR 205 renegade heads. good luck!

http://forums.corral.net/forums/5-0-5-8-engine-tech/1707778-408-afr185-street.html

 

thanks and thanks for the link. I called afr and they said the heads I have will be fine and the car will be a torque monster which is what im looking for anyway. I would love the afr 205s but I have these on tap right now. Im also running 3.55s in the rear and a 5 spd.

The reason Im building the 408w is that I have a bare block and no reason not to. forged kits are very close in price regardless of displacement. I think the 408cid will be a great engine. Im also hoping that the pro m efi will make it run as efficiently as possible.

 

The reason Im building the 408w is that I have a bare block and no reason not to.

I'll give you one reason - cap walk.

It is one of those things that people pretend isn't common. But once it happens to you, people come out of the woodwork to tell you THEIR horror stories.

The Windsor main cap system sucks. Shallow registers, two bolts, and no dowels to positively located the main caps. It works fine for short strokes and lower rpm (ever wonder why the factory put such short strokes in these motors?).

Girdles don't seem to be much of a cure, either, as I've heard of plenty of failures on girdle-equipped motors. The one thing several girdle owners said is that the girdle DID help minimize crank damage on motors that split their block.

I had a 425" shortblock, built by a shop that was supposed to be an expert in stroked Windsors. ARP mainstuds. The motor was planned for a much bigger cam than what I ran, so with less power and rpm, I figured it would last forever. Within 1000 miles, the oil pressure at idle was down to the lower-teens. By 2000 it at 10. Main caps walked, caused bearings to wear.

I threw the factory block away, got a Dart block, and built my own motor. Assembled it all myself. It has been together for over 5 years, making more power and turning higher rpm, and still has 20+ psi at idle even after hours of running.

Not trying to be the boogie-man, but I wish somebody had given ME this information before I went with that first block.

 

I would change a few things
Heads will work but leaving power on table
90mm Tb 90 or 95mm Mass air
and the headers are small imo
they will work though makesure you cut the collectors off and use a true 3in collector

 

those would be awesome but I have everything else right now. pro m 80 is good for 800hp. all the rest of the components are in like new condition.

 

wow thanks for the heads up I've never heard of main caps walking like that. What exactly causes that situation and short of getting a dart block, how can that be minimized? Mine is going to be the 6.250 rod if it matters. Do the aftermarket blocks have a way to positively locate the cap?

How high were you spinning that thing anyway? I plan to stay between 2000 and 5500 99% of the time. Hence the smaller heads, intake, etc

 

My motor made just over 550hp at the flywheel, and I shifted it about 6300 most of the time.

My car is heavy, and that probably aggravated the situation. But I have a friend with a very light Cobra replica, who ran a stock block 408, built by a well-known shop - he put about 10,000 miles on his before main bearings went away. It put right at 430hp to the wheels (on a DynoJet 224x, which I own).

If you want your stock block to last, IMHO, go shorter on the stroke and keep the rpm lower. You can spend money on girdles, aftermarket caps, etc... but parts and machine work will cost enough to make a nice down payment on a Dart block. The splayed bolts and the way the block is machined to accept the caps make the Dart's bottom end WAY more stable.

 

Lmao he isn't going to hurt a stock 351 block with 450rwhp. I swear some of you people lower the numbers every day. Soon people are going to say 351 blocks are cracking with stock power.

Op, do what you had planned. It will be fine. I just built a forged 408, with an s480 and shooting for 800 to the wheels easily.

 

It will be fine, no issues at all

 

Yeah a dart block would be awesome with 205 heads but it is nice to dream. But then again I have to up the intake, headers, tb tranny etc. Im shooting for close (give or take 20hp) 500hp/550trq@the flywheel. Should put me where I want to be. 440hp at the tire is a joke for a dart block anyway. I don't think there are any limits on them.

Do you think my cam is a good choice? I think it will be pretty mild in a 408w. I've also heard that it will pull no more that 9" of vacuum at idle which is ng. I'm am very open to any and all suggestions. I prefer ots cam given the mild build of my engine but I value everyones opinion.

 

My 408 has 10"+ of vacuum with a 264/272 solid roller, 114 LSA so the cam you listed should have more than 9". I run power brakes with no problem. Go with a custom, you'll be happy you did.

 

Gonna guess about 500 to 520 fwhp.

 

that would be awesome if that would happen

 

anybody estimate my power...

10.5 compression 410w
afr 205s hyd. roller
super vic and elbow
90mm tb?
z303 cam (.552/230)
bbk 1 3/4 long tubes
tremec 3550
aluminum flywheel

thanks!

 

Maybe I missed it but what cam are you going with?

 

XFI236HR-14 236/248 @.050 .579/.579 114 degrees

 

There was a guy on here that did the combo just like you did with AFR185s on a 408 and said it would be a torque monster, his cam was like 224/236 but he didn't make any torque or horsepower, it was about 410whp. I expect you will make more than him, I would expect in the 15-25hp more range? If you really want 500hp from this, I suggest you sell the XFI236 and get a custom cam with your goal in mind. It will end up having more duration than what you have now.

 

There was a guy on here that did the combo just like you did with AFR185s on a 408 and said it would be a torque monster, his cam was like 224/236 but he didn't make any torque or horsepower, it was about 410whp.

That sounds frighteningly close to what I have - 10.5:1 408w with AFR185s, emissions friendly custom cam around that duration with .600-ish lift. Roughly 425hp/450tq at 5800/4200 through a 5 spd after some tuning.

Now that I no longer have to deal with emissions, I'd be tempted to run a larger cam, but I'm happy with how it runs now and don't want to mess up a good thing. The car is so smooth, easy to drive in traffic and doesn't draw much attention with it's stock idle. I sometimes laugh at how much tq is available over the whole rev range. It feels like a giant sling shot from 1000 to 6000 rpm. Pretty sure it has a lot to do with Ed's cam work.

Regarding the throttle body choice, I initially went a little too big @ 90mm making the throttle twitchy. I settled for an 80mm unit which was a good compromise and didn't cost me any appreciable power up top.

 

A custom cam is not completely out of the question. I emailed comp cams on a recommendation and that is the grind that they came up with. I happen to go on the used parts in the corral and there is was, like new and half the price.

 

I would not email Comp Cams, your question was answered by a High School drop out putting your info into a CamQuest program. Email FTI

 

I agree with a custom cam 500fwhp is well within reach..

 

I was originally going to order my cam from fordstrokers before I came across this.

 

lol that's great. Do you think its a decent cam though?

 

Here is what I have in my 408w, which gave me 411 at the rear and 420 torque. It will pull hard between 35-70mph. Spins tires nice at 60mph. Its not the fastest street car but I'm happy with it.

COMP Cams Thumpr Hydraulic Roller Camshaft
SCAT 4 inch Crank Shaft
JESEL Rockers
4340 Bushed Rods with ARP 2000 Hardware
AFR 185 Heads (milled)
Custom JE Pistons
Total seal plasma-moly file fit rings
Ferrea Valves
Custom chromoly pushrods
TKO 600 Transmision, Ford Racing 373 Gears
MSD Digital Ignition, MSD Street Blaster Coil
BBK Ceramic coated Long Tube Headers and BBK X Pipe
Holley 650 Ultra HP Carb
Edelbrock Victor Jr. Intake

 

that's a great combo. was that on a mustang dyno or dyno jet? whats the specs of your cam?

 

I'm leaning more and more towards that direction.

 

small heads for better torque. you might end up with more torque, less hp, and i promise you'll be damn happy with it. 500ft lbs is a safe bet. might lose some hp because it'll run out of breath up top. keep all of that in mind. you want a stump puller under the hood, stick with the small heads, short shift it, put some high gears in the rear, and make it so no one stands a chance in the 1st 1/8th mile. you don't like the hp numbers, spray it.

 

I'm never racing it anyway. Spray hadn't crossed my mind, until now. Changing the cam is no big deal in a mustang anyway. I have the Anderson magnets for that. I got the stroker kit in a couple of days ago and finished clearing the block. Just waiting on a couple of parts. Will keep you guys posted. thanks for your input

 

Just the kind of numbers I'm looking for. I know those numbers are easily attainable with a stock 302 with hci and 8-10#s of boost but seeing a 351w block under the hood with a trick flow r series intake, polished fabed valve covers with coils mounted on them with a AFM power pipe, blue vortech fuel rails, it just make me giggle. I was sold after I mocked it up.