You will never make that much power with 165 or 185. 205's at the bare minimum. At least get a set of forged rods.

 

im building a 396w on a kinda tight budget. im trying not to spend over $6k on the whole car. so far im at $2500 and all i have left is the engine to build. im trying to reach 450-500hp and 550-600tq how possible does this sound.

first of the main question, which would be better world product windsor jrs. bowl blended and gasket matched. with back cut 2.02 and 1.60 valves and shaved .040" for a 58cc combustion chamber, for $600. or should i splurge and get the AFR 165 or 185 heads for $1400ish.

also i am considering using the xtreme energy cam PN 249-cl35-250-4 which is ad. dur. 284/296 lift 541/544 should i use this cam or go bigger. i dont want to turn the motor over 6500rpm.

the strocker kit im using is a OPM 3.850 cast steel crank (same casting as the eagle and scat 9000, i believe) stock polished rods, and speed pro powerforged 302 pistons flat top 9.13 @ 63cc

the rest will be some kind of 8qt oil pan, edelbrock air gap intake, hooker swap headers, 1.7 roller rockers, ARP bolts and studs, meizer or moroso electric water pump.

i was givin a factory 351 short block from a 80 full size pickup, so the block and rods are free. doe s this seem doable for under $3500.

AFR 225s, you would make killer power with this and a custom cam + good intake

 

so about how much power would i be looking at with what i have?

 

With afr 185s, you gonna have a 350hp motor that revs to 5000

 

Victor Jrs.

 

302 parts will make 302 power.

351W parts will make 351W power.

This is 351W stroker. Thus, you need parts that will allow this engine to breath. A RPM Air Gap is a mistake. Looking at a head in cc's is wrong. I made a long post about that about 3 or 4 days ago.

Under 6500 RPM with good parts and your hp goal is reasonable. remember, a 3.85" stroke is the SAME as a 460cid BBF. Don't be afraid of good parts.

Good Luck.

 

you will need windsor sr's at minimum, or vic jr's or 205's 225's. big motors need big heads. don't worry about low end torque, you won't be able to hide it no matter what head you choose, THINK BIG

 

you will need a nitrous system to make it easier with some heads and keep it affordable...........

 

i dont like nitrous, buit i do plan on going with a S/C later on. can i get good 351w heads for around $1500pr. the plan was to originally put a 302 in my 99, then i did some research, & found out it will only cost about $300 more to build a 351. then found the crank i want for $189. so for $500ish more i can have a 396 vs a 302. this will be the first motor i have ever built, myself. i have a expeirenced buddy helping me, so it shouldnt be to hard. i have a email to summits tech line with the question just to see what they recommend.

 

i was looking into the AFR 205 and 225's, and i was told they require a special header. is this true? if so where can i find this "special" header?

 

You dont need a "special" headers, just ones for a 351.

 

You dont need a "special" headers, just ones for a 351.

i didnt hink so, i just wanted to cover all the bases, if you know what i mean. i still havent decided on which headers to use, im debating on the hooker swap shorties, or the bbk swap shorites, i cant find any long tubes for a sn95 (swap headers), and i have been told the fox headers wont fit, something about hitting ths steering shaft and clutch fork housing

 

hooker makes a set of shorty headers for sn95 windsor swap

 

I think you may be able to use the 79-93 351 swap longtubes, but email BBK or whoever else makes longtubes and ask them. They will give you a better answer than what I can. Or if you have the money look into a set of Kooks headers.

 

hooker makes a set of shorty headers for sn95 windsor swap

I have these but they aren't big enough for a 396 I believe. Stock 351w football rods are good enough.

 

BB&T racing, and summits tech line told me to use AFR 205's and a cam with a .550+ lift ground on a 108. they said this would give me enough if not more power then what i am looking for.

 

call mac or kooks for exhaust...longtubes man....you have to spend the money or atleast use the good/bigger parts to make bigger power....its hard to cram 5 pounds of sausge in a two pound bag....just my .02

 

with the cam you got listed, i`d go with the afr 205`s or maybe the vic jrs. as for windsor jrs. and trickflow. i wouldn`t buy them unless they were almost free.
look at the canton pans, i just put moroso`s pan (#20520), pickup tube, windage tray on my 351/fox and i wont buy another moroso product now. the 2 big bolts on the rear of the pan next to the rear main seal are in the pan, you have to undo 2 allenhead plugs on the bottom of the pan and use a 9" extention with a 1/2" socket (1/4 drive) and hope you can feel for the holes to start them in, had to put gasket sealer on the bolt head to keep it in the socket so it dont fall off. plus cut a corner off the tray for the pickup to fit, trim about 1/2" by 4" off one of the baffles so the pan wont hit the tube.

 

A 393W with 185's will make 500 hp with ford 393 crate motor cam,vic jr intake,and 1 3/4 longtubes(10.8-1 comp). Better check AFR's webpage. You dont need 225's or crazy race heads like that for that power level. Oh, btw a 393W ford crate motor with the otb Z heads made 500+ HP with an air gap RPM intake.


http://www.airflowresearch.com/

Tim

 

AFR 205's all the way for this motor!!!

 

I have a 68 mustang convertible with a 393w in it, using AFR185 heads, a very mild comp cams solid roller cam (268R), and a performer rpm intake. Compared to what everyone here recommends this is a very mild combination. It has great torque, will easily pull from 1800 rpm in fourth gear, yet still pulls hard to 6500 rpm. It will break the tires loose in first or second just by rolling on the throttle. My car is a street car which is driven often in warmer weather, it will idle in traffic, and has been reliable. I guess it all depends on what you want in a car.

 

Oh, btw a 393W ford crate motor with the otb Z heads made 500+ HP with an air gap RPM intake.Tim

I did not see where this guy has said anything about a FMS Z-304 head. The cfm per sq in is ridiculous. Thus a dual plane would be needed. And have YOU ever heard one of these idle? You need to compare apples to apples.

 

I was planning a build for a 393W w/ AFR205's and I was told that the AirGap wouldnt flow enough for my motor. I was recommended to go with a Victor Jr. I dont know how true it is but thats what I have been told....

 

I did not see where this guy has said anything about a FMS Z-304 head. The cfm per sq in is ridiculous. Thus a dual plane would be needed. And have YOU ever heard one of these idle? You need to compare apples to apples.

Jay

Im not making a comparison....just an observation for the matter of information. At the stated goal of 450-500 hp 393W the airgap would work fine. Edelbrock states that the intake is designed for stroker W motors in the 2500-6500 range. If people do not believe them that is there choice. But it has been done. His budget is small...you don't need AFR 225 heads(or the Z heads) and custom cams for that hp goal. Fords 393 crate motor with gt40x heads and off the shelf comp cam has dynoed many times over the years at 450 hp(430 hp...9.7-1 compression rated). As far as me having heard "one of these idle?" Im not sure what your getting at but I have heard many different combos idle.....but none with the Z head...yet, If that is what you mean. With the cam he has mentioned I don't believe he is concerned with the idle. With the $600.00 heads he mentioned and the cam he has mentioned he can make 450+ hp with the static compression of at least 10.5-1, and proper exhaust using the air gap intake. Is it a perfect combo?...probably not.....but if it fits the budget and makes the hp goal it is a successful combo.

Tim
81 coupe
351W/AOD
12.13 111.4
87 octane

 

car craft did a 400hp motor build back in july `03 using a box stock `91 302 h.o.. the bottom end was all stock, even the cam. they used the afr 165`s and got around 390`s with that. swapped in bigger 1.7 rockers and they got around 405-410hp.

that article is on the afr website. http://www.airflowresearch.com/ click on the articles link ontop and see what builds have been done and compare. might find one in there that you like and answer some questions.