for what? What are your mods and future plans. The Holley is expensive and supports auto tune for fuel (VE), Pro-M is the cost of a new born and supposedly requires no tuning... PimpXS supports auto tune for VE and is the least expensive stand alone. Quarterhorse and a stock computer is the cheapest option, doesnt have auto tune but if you use TunerPro it has histograms that tell you what changes to make to the maf curve and a few other tables. Anything requiring tuning is going to require time and patience while you learn how to tune.

 

for what? What are your mods and future plans. The Holley is expensive and supports auto tune for fuel (VE), Pro-M is the cost of a new born and supposedly requires no tuning... PimpXS supports auto tune for VE and is the least expensive stand alone. Quarterhorse and a stock computer is the cheapest option, does have auto tune but if you use TunerPro it has histograms that tell you what changes to make to the maf curve and a few other tables. Anything requiring tuning is going to require time and patience while you learn how to tune.

1996 bronco. Currently a 351w. AFR 185 heads. Edelbrock victor efi manifold. Headers. Custom cam from Ed. 217/223 110 lsa. Zf5 manual swap.

Eventually I’ll be upgrading to a 408 or 427 from ford strokers.
The whole issue is there aren’t any tuners in Kansas City I trust but one. They will only do it if I upgrade to a different ecu system. I’ve had a few botched times from other “good” places on my bronco and gto. They recommended Holley and it was recommended by a friend who works at Hennessy. I trust their opinion but I was just making sure there wasnt something better. Didn’t know pro m had a system.

 

Man, another one of these threads. I have a pimpxs, and I really love it for a street car. Done a few of them and they all run great. Shannon and Wes run their own forum and dish out whatever help people need, and are very sharp. I’m somewhat biased since I really like tuner studios software, I think it’s pretty intuitive - especially for things you actually need to do to get a street car running. You can also get way into it and do all kinds of interesting things.

Holley has a massive amount of people that use it, and pretty much any tuner can support it. It’s a great option, and most people who can follow instructions and do a little reading on setup are successful. There are almost limitless things you can do.

 

I have a Holley terminator x installed on my 1995 GT. Personally the tuned stock computer ran better and got much better gas mileage with the exact same combo. Both made the same amount of power on the dyno.

The good thing about the Holley is having all new wiring and limitless tuning if you need it.

 

probably the realistic answer is who is going to tune the car?

If you’re doing the tuning and willing to learn the system then you can make any of them work.

If you are using a shop to do your tuning then you need to use the system they know or recommend.

 

House of boost in Kansas City

 

X2 on the PimpXS.

 

I like the Holley.

 

Call house of boost and ask them their fav system. Go with that.

 

I say this every time one of these threads comes up. By Holley if you want to tune. By Pro-M if you want to drive.

 

I’m in an area with limited cell service right now. If you don’t mind me asking what is the benefit of running the pro m?

 

With a pro-m setup, apparently you can drive the car on the street. With the Holley you can only tweak indefinitely, but can't actually drive the car on the street. I know this cuz of the 10's of thousands of people who own Holley and never drive it to work like I did this past Friday. Flawlessly mind you, it drives so much better than I could accomplish with the stock ECU even though I had 10 years of tuning experience on the stock ECU when I put in the higher revving 427 with big cam. Idles perfect at 800 RPM using a 300 degree duration cam and the Ford IAC, which I also hear is impossible reading the internet.

 

Do a search on ProM.. HUGE thread on it along with opinions from those that have it.

ks

 

I have the Holley Sniper, which is about the lowest you can go without getting into some real junk...oh, sorry, FiTech, didn't see you there. There are some known issues with it. RFI (mostly solved by good grounds, good plug wires, proper plugs, good wiring management, etc). Injector plugs (solved with $.05 worth of zip ties). Coolant temp reading 15-20* too high (solved with a quality AC Delco sensor). Stuff like that.

I have 0 complaints about Holley in general as a result of my experience. I don’t street drive my car too much these days, but when I do, it fires up easily and runs well enough. Street manners are good. Temperature doesn’t affect it. Cold starts could be a bit better year round, but I haven’t messed with it. It’ll “chug” a little till it’s warmed up (plugs loading up a bit). I just take it easy when it’s cold, then run it in good when it’s warm. Eventually I will mess with that, I just can’t bring myself to mess with the tune during the season. I looked down recently and noticed that my fuel pressure was higher than it should’ve been (not the Sniper’s fault, it’s an Aeromotive regulator). I never noticed. The Holley corrected for it perfectly. I haven’t bothered to fix it yet, again, car’s running great (and there’s always the chance the gauge is acting up).

I am considering upgrading to the Terminator or better. It wouldn’t hurt to pick up some more power (Sniper is only 800CFM, which is probably on the small side for a larger-bore 427 inch engine with ported heads and intake, big valves, good exhaust, etc. 1000 CFM might pick up a little). I also want a little more even fuel distribution with MPFI. Or at least I think I do, I haven’t had issues with that, just something that sounds better. The ability to datalog fuel pressure and oil pressure, etc, would be nice as well, especially since I’m upgrading to used slicks next year. It’s hard to glance down at the oil pressure gauge in the middle of a hard corner to make sure I’m not having oil pick up issues, but that’s pretty critical information to have (and engines are more expensive than EFI systems).

The EFI systems above the Terminator are even more flexible. Nice thing about them is that you get into the ability to run traction control, waaaay more flexible I/O, and coil on plug ignition, if those are things you care about. I’ve never felt like traction control was that big a deal, but will admit that trying to put down 525whp or whatever my engine puts to the wheels is dang difficult in a parking lot (autocross). Things are also…interesting if I get caught in the rain on the 255 all-season street tires. Like I mentioned before, the I/O is handy when you’re really running the car hard.

All a matter of what you can afford and what your situation warrants. I am a big fan of “buy once, cry once” so that you don’t end up like me, wanting to upgrade your system a couple years later. The Sniper was originally on a second hand 351w, and my college budget was tighter when I got it, so it made sense. But now I have a professionally built engine and want to treat it as such.

Just my experience, musings, and opinions, YMMV.

 

So I need some input from guys. I'm leaning towards the Pro M but the under the advice from multiple tuners and a tuner friend, they recommend the Holley Terminator.

How would speed density from the holley play with the multiple changing altitudes. I live literally at sea level but will be taking the truck up into the mountains. Wouldn't speed density potentially need some adjustments that MAF would do automatically?

 

So I need some input from guys. I'm leaning towards the Pro M but the under the advice from multiple tuners and a tuner friend, they recommend the Holley Terminator.

How would speed density from the holley play with the multiple changing altitudes. I live literally at sea level but will be taking the truck up into the mountains. Wouldn't speed density potentially need some adjustments that MAF would do automatically?

Makes no difference, speed density will compensate via AFR , manifold pressure etc. All ecu’s use the same basic principles (AFR, MAP, IAT etc). MAF adds additional input via an estimate of volumetric air flow or as ProM refers to load. ProM major emphasis is based on volumetric air flow, MAP is manifold pressure. Both rely on lambda aka O2 sensors for real-time adjustment.

 

As said above.

• MAP - Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor will see changes in baro, automatically adjusting for changes in altitude.
• MAT - Manifold Air Temperature sensor compensates for air density changes with temperature.
• AFR - Air/Fuel Ratio compensates for any variations in desired air/fuel ratio in real time via a wideband O2 sensor.

 

this thread delivers.

My biggest fear has always been giving up the MAF.

 

Ls swapped my foxbody with the termX have had no issues with the harness or ecu.i have had to buy extras small harnesses to hook up the cooling fans,can bus xtension,can to usb for tuning for example. I got the dash too with GPS speedo it works great as well. The car starts and runs everytime I turn the key.

Ok there was one issue the tuner corrected which seems like a common complaint. Taking off in first gear the engine would bog rich like a poorly tuned carb, then take off. After tuning its barely noticed.

 

I would think the Pro M would not be the best choice since this is going in a Bronco. Once you buy all the extras for the Terminator X you are in fox body Pro M price range but the custom Pro M systems are REALLY expensive.

 

How much extra stuff do you have to buy with a term x?

 

This is what they recommended to me.

 

This is what they recommended to me.
View attachment 1090829

Who is that?

 

The above is so much different than what I pieced mine together for:

Even better, it's a Holley HP setup though granted the HP was used, the rest were new parts.

 

I think most want the box solution so comparing eBay shopping vs box delivered isn’t Apple to Apple.

The ProM also provides a harness for simplifying the wideband install, it has a ready made 10 gauge circuit for your cooling fan, connects all your factory connectors , etc.

I think the discussion is more nuanced that just tuning.

The ProM also has the meth, nitrous, 2 step, extra 12V outputs already wired in to the system.

The MAF is often something people already have. I owned my proM maf long before I bought the system.

Things to consider with a stand alone is you don’t need a separate meth controller.

The proM harness quality is top notch.

I agonized over the choice. Both can do what you want but the harness quality and all the features of ProM while still having factory style harness and connectors is why I went with it.

The cost of the tune is subjective as well. You dont have to pay $150 for the tune it’s an option. Holley also doesn’t give you a tune either.

Is the ProM more expensive? Yes. But you get a brand new, complete, EFI MAF harness with OEM quality connectors.

Most people will be biased and tell people to use the system they chose.

The hedge for me was the simplicity of swapping in the new harness, the built in fan circuit, and built in meth control.

I’ve added the options of the fuel pressure sensor, traction control, and the meth nozzle sensors which measure the flow.

 

Those sensors are all available at local part stores for half the price. The MSD coil is an absolute waste. Go get the $30 lifetime warranty one from part store. It’s just as good.

Why would you buy the harness when one is included in the TermX kit? The sensors are included in the kit too.

 

The best IMO is actually the HP or Dominator boxes from Holley. But they are more expensive than the Terminator.

I have never used the Pro-M but it sounds great, especially with the idea of keeping the mass air. I have always had really good luck with any Pro-M product and I bought my first meter from them in the mid 1990s. I can see the appeal of not having to tune so heavily for cars that don't need it. I would have loved to have had a system like that twenty years ago.

I am about to put a Holley Dominator setup on a second car I own. I already have an HP setup on a car. So this will be my third Holley system. My car with the HP is a garage queen, the car with the first Dominator box is a drag race only car and the newest car is 2005 GT. I like the Holley system because you can do anything with it.

If I want to make an advanced table to pull 8 degrees of timing based on the AFR at wide open throttle, I can do that. If I want to turn a dash light on anytime the ethanol content of the fuel is under 60%, I can do that. Want to run 16 injectors? 24 injectors? It can do it. Want to turn on a second set of injectors only at wide open throttle and spray methanol? It can do it. That functionality is something that doesn't exist in a lot of other systems. Take note, I have no idea if you can do any of this with a Pro-M, as I am completely ignorant of its capabilities. I do know that the Fueltech systems can do many of these things at a bit lower cost. I also realize it is probably overkill for many applications so it really comes down to how much you need the Star Trek level of functionality. The HP box that is on my garage queen car is overkill but at the time I installed it, the Terminator system did not yet exist.

 

All depends on your wallet and experience.

There is more than a few tooners on here that push Holley because they make a ton of money off their systems. tooning and selling and retooning.

I don't know a ******* thing about tooning. put down 645rwhp in my driveway without having to know anything about tooning. 408 10:1 Vortech V3SI. box stock pro m tables, oem drivability. Just read, understand, follow the directions to the letter.

pro m was my best fit because it was a direct replacement harness for my old 86 mustang. im installing the universal one right now in a 90 Lincoln lsc and it fits pretty good. universal....some fab to be expected. same goes for any other system.

buy once cry once.

or get Holley whatever and install. lots of support for either system. enjoy.

 

TermX all retail prices for me was $1200 kit, 80$ 3 bar map sensor (optional if not NA) $400 dual sync distributor. And I was done, already had a 6 series MSD box.

If you keep the existing distributor you can easily just get the kit with the TFI adaptor.

KJB, you're confusing at times. You say you know nothing, you've said it's BS to use a laptop, yet you've made support posts to other pro-m users telling them how to make changes in their tunes via laptop. Which is it man... did you just plug in everything and it worked perfect or did you actually gasp make changes. I know you're trying to justify your superior choice but get real man. Those of us that have been around the block ain't buying it. Being real will help provide better advice for everyone regardless which side of the fence they fall.

 

and there they are....

 

Don't be a *****, say what you want to say.

 

Just some self amusement. like fishing with Holley bait. enjoyed that lol

 

I'm not pushing either side, just truth. Which you seem to lack. If you're a salesman for them you should be collecting a check. I think the Pro-M is a great system, what I don't think is great is when people lie to make themselves or their choices look superior to others.

I will say this though, when you blow 42+ THOUSAND on a Nelson Racing Ford 428 engine package they include Holley HP as the ECU. That surprised me, I figured they'd be using Motec.

 

I think ProM is worth a look, but it is not for everybody and price is a big factor for a lot of people. Sacrifice some reliability or time for a cheaper price.