I have one in the shed. I know the valve body is different than the C4 but, what else? Does anyone make a performance reverse manual valve body for it? Is the converter the same as a C4? Basically what are the differences between the C4 and C5,and is it worth putting $$ into.
HAWK327
Ok, I'll give my best shot here. Maybe somebody will read this post and correct me if I'm wrong.
The C-5 was produced from about 83-87 and has a lockup converter. I'm trying to remember what was different with the input shaft ... just can't remember. I only messed with one ever. Internally it is pretty much a C-4 otherwise, and some guys use some of the components in the C-4 because they are believed to be better.
Hows that for generalizations and no specific answers? I bet one of the transmission places can set you straight.
The C-5 was produced from about 83-87 and has a lockup converter. I'm trying to remember what was different with the input shaft ... just can't remember. I only messed with one ever. Internally it is pretty much a C-4 otherwise, and some guys use some of the components in the C-4 because they are believed to be better.
Hows that for generalizations and no specific answers? I bet one of the transmission places can set you straight.
The valve body and converter are the big differences, I think the ring for the clutch pack retainer in the forward drum might be a little bit deeper, some people say they've added another clutch pack. Other than that, the internals are identical. I used several parts from a C5 in my C4.
And they were first made in 82, not 83.
And they were first made in 82, not 83.
Deep pan(2.5"deep)
Fine thread on fr band adjuster
Large cooler fittings(1/4" thread)
E2 casting code
Starting at the back ,the #9 thrust washer has the normal 2 locate tangs but also has 2 cutouts to line up with an additional lube hole discussed in the c4 build post.The hole is drilled through the case to meet up withthe cooler return passage.The hole is 9/64".
The cooler return passage is also drilled to 13/64" which is larger than a c4(5/32"
The rear roller clutch spring retainer has the wafer springs clipped to it instead of being loose like a c4.
The front pump has no checkball in the stator support cooler passage and this passage is drilled to 1/4".A c4 has the passage at 3/16" and a ball fitted.
The ball can be removed on c4's to improve the oil flow in the cooler circuit.
Now moving inside, the sun gear where it fits into the front + rear planetaries has lube holes drilled to get the oil from the output shaft lube circuit to the gearsets.The C5 has 4 holes each end @.094" .The c4 only has 3 holes each end @ .040".
The forward hub has 5 clutches.It has a different bevel plate in the bottom of the clutchpack Which is .310"overall with a .110" step.
The c4 bevel plate is .265" with a .125"step.
The hi/rev hub has 4 clutches @.078",All steels @.090" with a dished cushion plate on top.
Both the fwd + hi/rev clutches have a thin .140" pressure plates.
The hi/rev hub has the circlip grooved machined higher also as has been mentioned before that the c5 hub has the capacity for more clutches.
The top edge of the groove is down 1.020" where a c4 is down 1.082".
I hope this info is useful as there has been a lot of discussion on the differences .These mods could be done to a c4 to improve the oiling to c5 specs
get rid of the convertor and valve body, buy new and use the c-5 far better oiling system....and you can put more clutches when you get rid of the wave steel (dished cussion plate), all it does is cussion the shift....
The c-5 will accept any 70 and up c-4 parts (v/bodies,26 spline convertors e.t.c......)
Dont forget the trans line fittings on the c-5 are bigger can use bigger trans lines for colling.....
Fine thread on fr band adjuster
Large cooler fittings(1/4" thread)
E2 casting code
Starting at the back ,the #9 thrust washer has the normal 2 locate tangs but also has 2 cutouts to line up with an additional lube hole discussed in the c4 build post.The hole is drilled through the case to meet up withthe cooler return passage.The hole is 9/64".
The cooler return passage is also drilled to 13/64" which is larger than a c4(5/32"
The rear roller clutch spring retainer has the wafer springs clipped to it instead of being loose like a c4.
The front pump has no checkball in the stator support cooler passage and this passage is drilled to 1/4".A c4 has the passage at 3/16" and a ball fitted.
The ball can be removed on c4's to improve the oil flow in the cooler circuit.
Now moving inside, the sun gear where it fits into the front + rear planetaries has lube holes drilled to get the oil from the output shaft lube circuit to the gearsets.The C5 has 4 holes each end @.094" .The c4 only has 3 holes each end @ .040".
The forward hub has 5 clutches.It has a different bevel plate in the bottom of the clutchpack Which is .310"overall with a .110" step.
The c4 bevel plate is .265" with a .125"step.
The hi/rev hub has 4 clutches @.078",All steels @.090" with a dished cushion plate on top.
Both the fwd + hi/rev clutches have a thin .140" pressure plates.
The hi/rev hub has the circlip grooved machined higher also as has been mentioned before that the c5 hub has the capacity for more clutches.
The top edge of the groove is down 1.020" where a c4 is down 1.082".
I hope this info is useful as there has been a lot of discussion on the differences .These mods could be done to a c4 to improve the oiling to c5 specs
get rid of the convertor and valve body, buy new and use the c-5 far better oiling system....and you can put more clutches when you get rid of the wave steel (dished cussion plate), all it does is cussion the shift....
The c-5 will accept any 70 and up c-4 parts (v/bodies,26 spline convertors e.t.c......)
Dont forget the trans line fittings on the c-5 are bigger can use bigger trans lines for colling.....
the pan is deeper becouse the c-5 v/body has a timing plate added to it. The c-5 v-body is junk, throw it as far as you can and get a 70 and up c-4 valve body... It will bolt right up, you can use the c-5 pan. It will hold more fluid like the Aluminum ones, but it wont dissipate the heat like the alluminum ones. but it is better then the c-4 short pan....
I am running a c-5 out of a 84 mustang v-6....
billy
I am running a c-5 out of a 84 mustang v-6....
billy
The 232 ci(3.8L)V6,200 ci,250 ci and 300 ci straight 6s ALL use the same 6 blolt 302/351w-c bellhousing.HAWK327 said:
Ok, so were any C-4's made during the same period as the C-5?? I've passed over a few mid 80's trannys thinking they were some newer C-4 that I didn't want. I'm wondering if they were C-5's. Should I go back to the bone pile and pull them out for $25 each?
don't think so Dennis...as I understand it they went to the lock up on all of them for gas milage reasons.
If you head back to the pile walk around to the back and grab those two h servo's
I need one pretty bad!
If you head back to the pile walk around to the back and grab those two h servo's
I need one pretty bad!So, the C5 is a lockup trans? If so, them my interest has definitely perked!
Is there a hardened input shaft available(c4/c5 the same)? What trans builder can I trust to send this to for a HP rebuild? I will probably go with a TCI converter and input shaft,I have a red band adjustable modulator on the trans, what about the servo? I know about the extra clutches, what about the pump? is the c5 pump ok? I'm guessing so because of the previous reply about the c5 having higher pressures.
Is there a hardened input shaft available(c4/c5 the same)? What trans builder can I trust to send this to for a HP rebuild? I will probably go with a TCI converter and input shaft,I have a red band adjustable modulator on the trans, what about the servo? I know about the extra clutches, what about the pump? is the c5 pump ok? I'm guessing so because of the previous reply about the c5 having higher pressures.
tci makes a c5 lockup converter???
I'm not sure if you can get a hardened input shaft, if they are the same length as the c4 (might not be since the c5 has a deeper converter) then it could work
The servo is prolly the a/b junk variety
I'm not sure if you can get a hardened input shaft, if they are the same length as the c4 (might not be since the c5 has a deeper converter) then it could work
The servo is prolly the a/b junk variety
I can throw in a little help here, I've recently replaced the C5 in my '83 GLX Vert 3.8 with an early '70's vintage C4. This is a mildly souped up 3.8 daily driver, it turns approximately mid 15's. It's pretty quick.
I couldn't find any performance C5 converters or shift kits.
The C5 torque converter and bellhousing are a full 1" thicker front to back than the C4 parts. This is bad because it adds a bunch more wieght in the worse place, the crank. The input shafts are the same, I had to reuse the C5 converter and bellhousing so the rear mount would still reach the tranny crossmember and so the driveshaft wouldn't fall out. I've developed a wierd growl under cold light accelleration lately and I'm leaning towards the converter, maybe this is the lock-up function never being used? It's driven a hard 75 miles every work day and it's been in for about 6 months. So I have bought a mild C4 converter and a HAL/QA1 tubular crossmember that can set the engine back 1". This along with the shorter C4 converter/bellhousing and the tranny will loose crank wieght, gain some stall, and still line up. The engine will move back an inch not the tranny moving forward. Not to mention my weight distribution will be even better. My factory single exhaust looks like it want's to move back an inch so that's no problem. It's pulling the mounts forward now, not sure why, sloppy exhaust work I suppose. I just installed a Ford Racing aluminum driveshaft due to u-joint failure, it couldn't handle the B&M shift kit and that heavy a$$ C5 coverter torqueing the shifts. The new driveshaft was 1" shorter than the C5 unit but it's working fine, it still had plenty of installed depth.
Vernon
I couldn't find any performance C5 converters or shift kits.
The C5 torque converter and bellhousing are a full 1" thicker front to back than the C4 parts. This is bad because it adds a bunch more wieght in the worse place, the crank. The input shafts are the same, I had to reuse the C5 converter and bellhousing so the rear mount would still reach the tranny crossmember and so the driveshaft wouldn't fall out. I've developed a wierd growl under cold light accelleration lately and I'm leaning towards the converter, maybe this is the lock-up function never being used? It's driven a hard 75 miles every work day and it's been in for about 6 months. So I have bought a mild C4 converter and a HAL/QA1 tubular crossmember that can set the engine back 1". This along with the shorter C4 converter/bellhousing and the tranny will loose crank wieght, gain some stall, and still line up. The engine will move back an inch not the tranny moving forward. Not to mention my weight distribution will be even better. My factory single exhaust looks like it want's to move back an inch so that's no problem. It's pulling the mounts forward now, not sure why, sloppy exhaust work I suppose. I just installed a Ford Racing aluminum driveshaft due to u-joint failure, it couldn't handle the B&M shift kit and that heavy a$$ C5 coverter torqueing the shifts. The new driveshaft was 1" shorter than the C5 unit but it's working fine, it still had plenty of installed depth.
Vernon
you guys covered it pretty well. The C5 input shaft is supposed to be stronger than a C4s, they are easy to tell apart. The C5 shaft has a recessed area about 1/3 of the way down the shaft.
I prefer to use a C5 case when building a trans or drill out the C4 case to C5 specs.
The upper portion of the valve body on the C5 is the same as a C4, therefore if you know what you are doing a C4 shift improvement kit should work just fine to bump throttle pressures. I have a couple in the garage and I'll yank one apart to look into the lower half for comparison.
todd
I prefer to use a C5 case when building a trans or drill out the C4 case to C5 specs.
The upper portion of the valve body on the C5 is the same as a C4, therefore if you know what you are doing a C4 shift improvement kit should work just fine to bump throttle pressures. I have a couple in the garage and I'll yank one apart to look into the lower half for comparison.
todd
HAWK327
That is why I told you to get rid of the convertor and valve body... they are junk...any c-4 v/body 70 and up will work.... get rid of the c-5 lock up convertor and use any c-4 26 spline convertor....
The c-5 convertor is a lock up, dont use it....., use a 70 and up c-4 26 spline... It will fit fine....
Billy
That is why I told you to get rid of the convertor and valve body... they are junk...any c-4 v/body 70 and up will work.... get rid of the c-5 lock up convertor and use any c-4 26 spline convertor....
The c-5 convertor is a lock up, dont use it....., use a 70 and up c-4 26 spline... It will fit fine....
Billy
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