Congrats on your data ! What did your daughter think of a dyno day ?

 

When things started out, the carburetor was way out of whack. I think she started getting nervous that daddy had brought a dud.

Bob’s guy OJ took the metering blocks off and disappeared for a bit. Came back and it was pretty well on the money. She said it was really cool and wants to get it in the car. Fell asleep most of the way home. So I know she was excited once we got it running right at full song. She was surprised how loud it was but liked that.

 

Nice congrats man! What cam is in it?

 

FTI Mutha Thumper “128” stage II special. Just over 250 at .050 intake. 10 more exhaust. About .730 lift intake and less on the exhaust. 110 LSA.

 

...And here I thought dyno numbers weren't cool and the proof is in the time slips.

Congrats!

 

I’m just a chassis dyno session away from a mic drop. Hahaha!

Im glad you brought that up. Bob had about six recent Wally’s on his desk. With a few from this and last year. This shop is all about racing and not about numbers. We had a good conversation about his weather station correction factor and the stupidity of not producing real world numbers. No fluffing numbers in his shop. Just a dyno built to facilitate up to 4,000 hp.

This is no engine masters episode. No Superflow dyno with a dail you can turn under the desk to make a customer happy. I was an easy 2000 hp short compared to what I saw sitting around the shop. Not to mention the engines he builds for certain classes. That place is the real deal. Which is why I chose it and why Toby at VPE recommended it to me.

Of course the numbers are corrected. But I was assured they translate to the track. Having said that, numbers real or fake don’t mean crap if the vehicle is a turd come race time. That is indeed what matters

 

very nice! more than my 363 haha. what et are your et goals? sticking with manual?

 

Thanks. 100% staying with a manual transmission. I have to switch over the straight cut faceplated gear set from the stock case iinto the G-Force T5 case I recently purchased. Fuel system, harnesses, upgrading the roll bar, suspension tuning, sending the clutch out to be rebuilt to the new power curve/numbers, new slicks and skinnies, etc will all need to be done before hitting the strip. Zero outlaw tracks I know of anywhere remotely close to me.

10.50 ET class stuff maybe. But with my schedule in the foreseeable future, I will just be trying to make glory passes time only. Off the trailer I would be happy to hit 10.50’s. I will consider myself failing if I am not able to work that down to low 10’s with time. I don’t really have a specific goal other than to have fun. I really don’t see myself at this point caring to chase a single digit quarter-mile ET. Even if it is technically remotely possible. Maybe once the kids are grown and out.

 

In my opinion, the engine dyno results show that Toby at VPE and Ed Curtis know what they are doing, work well together, and are very helpful to an average goofball garage tinkerer like me. Mark is great as well and got me what I needed even when he and Toby didn’t carry the product line at the time. Been a pleasure to work with them. Even if Ed and Mark do slum around here. Haha

 

...wow, you have surrounded yourself with awesome people...good for you, man !...

 

Impressive, shows what happens when you surround yourself with the right people and listen to their advice. And so much for the theory “those heads are too big for that small CI NA motor”.

 

Just curious as why the dyno pulls were started at 5k? That where the cams powerband starts? Nice power for a little 306...lol. You got 408w guys shaking there heads....🤣

 

Because I told them I simply don’t care what it does at low rpm. All the fun I will have with this car will occur over 5000 RPM. But we did make a pull early on from 3,500 rpm. Plenty of power down there for my purposes.

 

I may have missed it. did it make less power with more than 26 degrees? did you try with and without the spacer?

 

Yes, less power at 28 degrees. You could hear the engine wasn’t happy during the pull. Very little power difference between 24 and 26. Timing is locked out on this.

Never tried it without the spacer. Originally we were going to do a final pull without it. At the end Bob felt the engine needed the spacer and saw no reason to make a pull without it. He was suspicious that the intake manifold may have been maxed out. Would be interesting to run it with a proper dual quad tunnel ram. Haha.

 

Cool.
Why Is peak torque about same rpm as peak hp.
What was hp with peak torque at 5600.

 

Cool.
Why Is peak torque about same rpm as peak hp.
What was hp with peak torque at 5600.

I was wrong. 5,900 rpm showed a “peak” then it picked up 1 lb-ft further out. A dyno is not accurate to that degree. I would consider the actual torque peak from 5,700 rpm to about 7,300 rpm. It’s crazy. Bob was commenting on the flat torque curve and saying that is what you want. He felt the engine was doing well for what it was.

We all know a flat torque curve is a good thing. I just can’t say I remember ever seeing a torque curve for a pump gas street/strip engine as flat as this engine provides in its intended rpm range. I’m certainly not mad about it. Haha.

 

Fair enough
Most engines have about 4000 rpm of usable resonance
3500 to 7500

 

Fair enough
Most engines have about 4000 rpm of usable resonance
3500 to 7500

How is your son’s build coming along. Seemed like a very well thought out combo.

 

One thing I haven’t touched on is the headers that were used. Extremely long primaries compared to what I am used to. I really wish we could have run Calvin’s headers to see what they would have done. Especially in the mid range.

 

Speed Squawk had some interesting comments. 😆

 

True.

 

This is an extremely peaky engine.

 

Yup. Just compare the peak torque to the peak Hp rpm’s. 100 rpm spread. Dear Lord that’s awful! No doubt due to the exhaust lobe needing more lift than the intake. The valve being smaller and all. What was Ed thinking ndmp40??? Hahaha. You’re brilliant.

I have the print out of another pull where it made within 1 lb-ft at 5,900 rpm of it’s “peak” of 400 lb-ft from 6,700-7,200. You give a dyno way to much credit if you thinks it’s that accurate or repeatable down to 1 lb-ft. I would also suggest we have not found the end of the peak horsepower at 7500 either.

Sadly, we could not fit Calvin Elston‘s 4-2-1 stepped merg collector headers on the dyno. That would have pumped up the mid range without a doubt. They will be on the car though.

Now to the real world. I should have no problem, keeping the engine in its power band going down the track. The average power in that RPM range will accelerate my car nicely.

Plenty of power to put it around on the street in my vehicle. In fact it has more torque at 3000 rpm than my last engine and reaches my last engine’s peak torque number at a lower rpm. A few here remember how much I drove the combo around on the street. It was a lot of fun.

 

Its could be a decent drag engine, but you will need a close ratio manual trans and LOTS of gear.
You could have made a much better performing engine by putting the money you spent on headers into a decent 347 rotator. Your results would have been MUCH better, a much broader tq and HP curve, much more compression.
My C6 corvette, with just a cam change, makes 450 to the wheels with STOCK exhaust manifolds. My 95 Cobra makes 550 to the wheels with Ford Racing shorty headers. The headers are cool but the money would have been much better spent on cubes.

 

Its could be a decent drag engine, but you will need a close ratio manual trans and LOTS of gear.
You could have made a much better performing engine by putting the money you spent on headers into a decent 347 rotator. Your results would have been MUCH better, a much broader tq and HP curve, much more compression.

No disagreement there. Technically spot on. Pretty easy to say about any build really. Heck, should have built a big block. Then a power adder. Then a pro mod. I’ll leave that up to B-rad. 👍

100% correct about the money on the headers. Anybody knows that. But what car would I put the 347 you describe into?The money on the headers will pay off on this build AND what ever larger displacement build I do next. More on this build than I believe you are giving them credit for. Nice to have cylinder heads I can grow with as well. I chalk that up to spending money wisely.

This build is much more suited to the car it will be limited to and what I am willing to make it legal to run at this point. The engine should work very well for the application.

I do not see it, dropping out of the power band radically enough to make it a dog on shift recovery. Numbers are still good there. Especially once the headers are on it. This is not going to be shifted at 7,500 rpm if anyone is thinking that. I’m guessing decently over 8,000. That’s been the plan all along and why the 8,500 chip is in the limiter as a starting point.

The car is light and has a decent gear for the tire height and mph it has the potential to run in the 1/4 mile. I told Ed I could afford to lose power in the low rpm range from the last build and it ended up better from 3,000 rpm on up.

Last build went 11.12 at 122. This should put up a respectable number for a pump gas 306 and look good doing it in my ‘65 fastback.

Now for the fun. What does that corvette run? How about the ‘95 Cobra? I’ve met lots of people in the staging lanes. Talk about impressive power numbers. They don’t always back it up though.

 

...oh my...making popcorn...

 

He is into diesels and playing with that, I don't get it. All his car needs is a little odds and ends. Like wiring and fuel plumbing. Besides that it's ready. Starting to cool off here so nedd to get in running and go to track

 

I will spend a lot more time enjoying the car than if I went with race gas or e85. The one E85 station I knew close to me stop selling it. I’d spend too much time hunting for fuel or not wanting to use up my race gas. The car would end up sitting too much. I want to have fun with it.

 

And dont think I have anything against those AFR 220 heads...LOL

 

What engine are you putting in the Falcon? This summer has been a slow go for mine, between the racing season and family obligations. But I am putting it back on the front burner soon...

 

What engine are you putting in the Falcon? This summer has been a slow go for mine, between the racing season and family obligations. But I am putting it back on the front burner soon... View attachment 1102499 View attachment 1102500

Thanks for the out of the blue update. I’ve told you before I really like your falcon build. I’ve also told you before my 64 falcon convertible will be a family cruiser. Down the road, I’ll ask you what power it made and what it runs at the dragstrip.

 

My falcon is a cruiser too! Four link rear built for handling and ride, and a mild but real powerful engine I built for low bucks. 302 shelf pistons, stock 351 rods, 3.85 cast crank. TW heads I ported to 186cc’s, ported Chinese Vic jr intake, a carb I built for the street, and a secret spec cam (lol). Made 480 hp by 5000 and idles at 850. Your daughter could learn to drive in it.

 

My falcon is a cruiser too! Four link rear built for handling and ride, and a mild but real powerful engine I built for low bucks. 302 shelf pistons, stock 351 rods, 3.85 cast crank. TW heads I ported to 186cc’s, ported Chinese Vic jr intake, a carb I built for the street, and a secret spec cam (lol). Made 480 hp by 5000 and idles at 850. Your daughter could learn to drive in it.

 

You will pAy for this mr Curtis….. no more free cam advice or speed secrets from me…..get out da checkbook…..

 

That armadillo knew you were serious!

 

I’m not sure where the shift point will be just yet. I will sneak up on it. I would not be afraid of 8500 RPM but I’m guessing it’s under that.

They are Jessel shaft rockers. The valve train should be stable thanks to a certain someone. I don’t see needing to adjust them often if I torque them down properly.

The last engine had shaft rockers, and they rarely ever needed adjusting.

 

The B++++ camshaft

 

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see this as a really 'peaky' engine.
High rpm, sure, but you have almost 400ftlb of torque from ~5200 to about ~7500.

Even with my standard tremec 3550 trans, shifting at 7500 (1st to 2nd) would bring rpm down to 5000 (bottom of torque tabletop).
Bump the shift rpm up and she'll be right in the powerband.

I would be curious to see a pull from 3500 to 8k or 8500.

 

Show me one other well sorted, well performing NA engine with a TQ peak the coincides with its HP peak. I have never seen one. Please post it up.
Plus this engine is way down on TQ production, which should occur 1000 to 1500 rpm lower than the HP peak. Should have made at least 450 peak, engines that I have built with similar HP numbers of 550 or so often make as much as 480 TQ or thereabouts. I think its in the tune up, but not sure, I wasn't there. Post up just one similar dyno sheet, I would like to see it.

Another thing I cant figure out is why it way run so cold. It should have spent a good 15 minutes minimum on break in, plenty of time to warm up to normal operating temp. Might not affect much, but I wouldn't even think of running it at 150*.

 

What does that have to do with 'peaky?'