Is it the pushrod that is pulling it over to one side ? if so you can used adjustable guide plates and fix the problem.

 

Another problem I think could be the side play of the roller trunrion. From side to side, there is .015 of play. compounded by the off centerness of the rock arms, I seems it could be those making a lot of the noise. As the cam pushes it to one side and the spring pushes it back to the other.

 

my rhs heads did this. adjustable guideplates fixed it.

 

Which ones did you use? Did you tack weld the plates together after you got adjusted?

 

Just did up a set of heads with the Comp ones. The fit between the male/female sections was very tight and no play at all. No need for a tack weld except if you are a perfectionist. The push rod slots are also deburred and no slag at all.

A lot of the generic ones do require welding because the fit is sloppy and can move around.

Ed

 

I am using these.

ADJUSTABLE GUIDE PLATES, SB FORD w/ 5/16", UNIVERSAL SBF - Alex's Parts Sales

They are the only ones I found made for a ford. all the isky or comp ones need to have the pushrod slots ground deeper cause they almost always hit on ford heads.

I did not weld mine

 

I just put set of Edelbrock guide plates on. The were .005 closer and seems to remove all the pigeon toe-ness. But the valve train noise is still excessive. I think the the push rods a slightly too short. Would that cause the noise? If I cut the valve tip in horizonataly with 6 evenly spaced lines. I would say the rocker contact patch is on the line above center.


The noise sounds more like a power stroke than a sewing machine. Any ideas what to look for? The car revs good and idles decent considering. Probably have about 10-15 minutes of run time on it now. I guess I can cut the filter and make sure nothing is coming appart.

 

rocker hitting the poly lock?

 

Can you post a video?

I have set-up valvetrains several times on AFR heads with the AFR guideplates and I have some pigeon toe, but if you keep messing with them, you can get a good balance. In a nut shell, I slightly torque the AFR guideplates down, just enough so I can use the pushrod to make the adjustments to where you feel the pigeon toe will be minimized, then turn the engine over to see how the pushrods/rocker/valve stem tip all work. If it is good, torque it down. If not try another angle...

I haven't experienced any strange sounds and went 60k on them.

I've seen another thing that worries people, but it is actually okay. AFR offset drills the pushrod holes to get as large a hole as possible for adjustment, but builders will try to get the pushrod exactly center with the pushrod hole. This can throw off the valvetrain geometry.

My last valvetrain setup was on AFR 185cc Comp's like yours.

 

Doesn't that seem a little weird that a $1800 set of heads comes with guide plates that don't center the rockers on the valves. If they can't measure, they should at least come with adjustable plates.

 

My AFR's have terrible rocker alignment also. on 1 particular valve less than half the roller tip is actually contacting the valve tip...kinda scary. I'm thinking of going shaft rockers when I get some extra cash.

 

I'll try to take a video later.

I don't think it's a polylock hitting, I put an engine stethascope on all the locks while it was runninging and didn't hear anything.

I cut the filter open last night, nothing to write home about. Some metalic coloring in the oil as I drained it out of the filter. The metal looked like the size of flour, nothing notiably sized.

 

Uploading the video now. Not sure how audible will be.

DSC_0551.AVI - YouTube

The knocking noise seems most audible on #1. But if I put the stethascope anywhere on the block or intake, I can detect the noise.

Could it be piston rock? Domes hitting the chamber? Pistons are .010 in the hold with a .047 gasket. It seemed to have enought clearance when I clayed it. Spark plugs aren't smacked in. Could it be an exhaust leak? I used Ultra Copper RTV and no gasket, it sounds too mechanical to be an exhaust leak. I guess I need to take to the engine builder and let him have a listen.

 

That video sucks, uploading another from my blackberry shortly.

 

Here is a better video.

VID-20120205-00000 - YouTube

50# of oil pressure. 20w50 valvoline. Break in oil was 10w40 pennzoil.

 

Sure sounds like a rocker arm. Is there any chance of a rocker hitting a valve cover baffle? It would be kinda messy, but you could remove a valve cover and start it and find out which one is making the noise, just don't rev it or you'll have oil everywhere. I may be crazy, but it sounded more like one clattering rather than all of them.

 

25 years ago I had a 351w that dropped a valve. The more I think about it, this does seem to have that same frequency that would suggest it's only one valve.

I've had the passenger side VC of and readjusted the valve mulitple times. It the noise is coming from a loose valve rocker arm, it has to be the drivers side. I guess that VC will come off tomorrow.

 

I'm ordering a set of those split/adjustable guide plates as I have the same problem on two rocker arms but not as severe.. good looking out on the website. I seen them but were almost a third more.

 

Those adjustable guideplates are one of those things you look at and think "Why didn't I think of that", so simple but a awesome idea. Now if they could just invent a cereal box that is easy to open, my life would be complete!

 

My plan for this week it to pull the drivers VC and check all the rockers then pull all the spark plugs and do a compression test.

If it's idling at 1000, thats 500 valve events a minute or 8.3 events per second. So it does sound like it's probably 1 rocker or pushrod that is out of whack.

Does anyone this it's not valve train releated?

 

I had a customer once that put those rockers on, and they were noisey compared to all the others I've used. I would say try a different set of rr and see if the noise goes away, I'm betting it will. Try some scorpions or something like that. You could also have a defective lifter that is not holding hydraulic pressure. See if a buddy will let you swap rockers before you tear it apart.

 

It is mechanical and sounds like the valvetrain - my vote goes to one set (or one rocker "area"). I still do not believe you need adjustable guideplates. I believe you can still work with them to get the right balance.

Thanks for posting the video, they are tough to diagnose, but much better than no video.

 

I've run both the AFR165's on my former 302 & currently the 185's on the 331; both had fairly noisy valvetrain. Both sound like one rocker was louder than the rest; 1 "ticked" while the others were a milder sewing machine type sound. Both combo's didn't have the best fitting guideplates from AFR either. But as already stated, you can fanagle them around to get everything fairly well lined up. Of note: I origionally had Crane gold roller rockers, then tried Scorpions (I believe; no markings on them other than "1.6" & they were blue anodized), & now I've installed the stainless steel Comp. Magnums. The Comp's are definetly a touch noisier than everything I've ever run; a bit of a deeper & more prominent sewing machine sound (maybe due to the stainless material?). Oh yeah, I've adjusted & readjusted my valvetrain at least four times trying to get it a touch quiter... I've had no luck as well... My single rocker or whatever "tapping" though is nowhere near as loud as yours....

 

I've heard others say those steel rockers are noisier than the aluminum ones. I assume the aluminum absorbs tha sound better or something. But even so, yours sounds more like just one or two really pecking away and it definitely sounds like a rocker.

 

i just e mailed afr and this is what i got in return

-----Original Message-----
From: steelie4u [mailto:steelie4u@cox.net]
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 12:48 PM
To: sale
Subject: afr 165 heads



I purchased your heads and come to find out now I have pigeon toed roller rocker arms due to the guide plates being incorrect? I paid a lot of money for heads that I thought were the best and have to modded to fit my motor? Why do I have to do this? Do you carry adjustable guide plates or should I just buy new heads from another manufacturer which are correct? I feel you guys should be the ones fixing this known problem not the consumer who purchases these from you, nothing on your site indicates that this mod needs to be done?


their response:

Hello,



It is normal for the rockers to not be parallel with one another on a SBF head. This does not affect performance or the valve train operation. You can buy adjustable guide plates, but they should not be necessary.





Feel free to contact us toll free if you need more info or to place an order.

Thank You,

Sales & Technical Assistance

Air Flow Research

877-892-8844


so i ordered these crane adjustable guide plates which dont require any grinding, still cant beleive they say its normal and wont hurt anything

Comp Cams 4835-8 Two Piece Adjustable Guideplates Type Flat Push Rod Size 5/16 in. Chevy Small Block/Ford 289-302 8 pc.

 

It is normal for the rockers to not be parallel with one another on a SBF head. This does not affect performance or the valve train operation. You can buy adjustable guide plates, but they should not be necessary.

I agree with them.

 

Tonight I re-adjusted the drivers side and left the VC off to make sure it wasn't hitting. Also replaced the pigeon toe guide plates with the slightly narrower Edelbrock guide plates off some Victor Jr. heads on the passenger side.

Started it back up and the noise was still there (both VC off).

Had wife come listen and breath some CO in the garage with me. She pin pointed the noise to the passenger side and the back two cylinders. (3 and 4).

Pulled all the plugs, propped open the TB and ran a compression test. Every hole was 210-220.

I'm aquiring a set of aluminum rocker arms tomorrow. I'll replace #4 and test, then number #3 and test. If still nothing, I'll replace #1 and 2. After that, it's probobably a lifter.

This Remote starter switch let me do the compression in test in record time by myself. I highly recommend one, I don't know how I survived without one. Eventually I'm sure I'll run myself over by leaving the car in gear with the key and start the car while standing in front of it.