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ABS delete, will this work?

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Jay72

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I have a '95 GT with cobra brakes front and rear.
Instead of buying that aluminum block I got lines and a prop valve off a 2000 v6 car.
I have a real Cobra MC and used adapters so the GT lines would work. With the '00 set up I would get rid of one adapter.

Just not sure on the proportioning valve. The brakes work great now, but obviously I need a prop valve with the left front brake line.
I have a prop valve off a '95 v6 and '00 v6. Took them apart, cleaned them up. The only difference is the springs and mounting configuration.

Is there any reason this won't work?
 
#2 ·
Hi Jay

I think you wont find a dirrect answer to your question unless someone has done the exact mod and can vouche for the end result. As I am sure you know proportioning valves or metering blocks are veihicle specific, that means volume/size of calipers and master cyl are matched accordingly, and what you are doing is mix maxching parts in hopes it works. So I would think you would have to try the combinations and try the car after on how it brakes and how it feels braking, long term will tell you if the rear brakes wear too fast or not at all.

Good luck with it
 
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Discussion starter · #3 ·
I've thought about that. As of right now it has the 38mm front calipers, stock rears with cobra rotors, cobra 15/16 master.
All with the gt proportioning valve.

I'm assuming it'll work the same now that my abs unit is non functional. I'm thinking the '00 prop valve might be closer match since it at least was designed for a twin piston caliper.

I'll see I guess. I'm not going to ruin anything so if it doesn't work I'll put it all back and get a block.
I'm in $9 so far for everything between the mc and rubber lines.
 
#4 ·
What's wrong with your ABS?
Is the light on?
Have you pulled the ABS codes?

As long as your problems aren't related to a solenoid, simply unplugging the 2 module wiring connectors will effectively disable the ABS system.

Playing with the prop valves is just going to introduce new problems.
 
Discussion starter · #5 ·
HYBRED said:
What's wrong with your ABS?
Is the light on?
Have you pulled the ABS codes?

As long as your problems aren't related to a solenoid, simply unplugging the 2 module wiring connectors will effectively disable the ABS system.

Playing with the prop valves is just going to introduce new problems.
Click to expand...
Left front valve, code 24.
I just threw my spare abs assembly away a month ago.

Years ago I had a '97 non abs.

I don't see the point of putting a third abs unit in this, and I don't see the point of running it with a dead abs unit on it.


The only problem is the prop valve in it has different sized ports. I could just buy the same adapters that I used to adapt the cobra mc to the gt mc lines and adapt the lines from the '00 to the '95 prop valve. One reason I got the '00 lines is because they are coated black. Every '90s car I looked at had uncoated, rusted lines.

What about changing the prop valve springs? I have the '00 v6 and '95 v6 valves. They look identical except for the mounting bracket, and the springs. The pistons inside are the same.
 
#6 ·
I don't quite follow what you are planning.

The porportioning valve isn't going to solve your ABS problems.

But, the best advice I can give is to gut the stock prop valve and install an adjustable prop valve. Use the MM plug to disable your stock valve.

You still need to deal with the ABS module/pump if it's defective. Sometimes manually cycling the valve will unstick it.
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
HYBRED said:
I don't quite follow what you are planning.

The porportioning valve isn't going to solve your ABS problems.
Click to expand...
I guess you didn't read the first post? Or even the title? It says ABS delete in the title.

I want to delete the ABS.
The proportioning valve is part of deleting ABS. And deleting ABS will solve my ABS problem.

I don't see deleting it as being a problem since some cars came without it, I've owned one. And I'm driving with a non functioning ABS system now.


The PROBLEM is finding a non ABS proportioning valve. One will eventually come into the salvage yard I go to and I'll buy it for $5 to $10. The only other option is ebay or some other source but they're $60 to $100+ there for a used one. Or I could use my own proportioning valve with non ABS SN95 uncoated, rusted lines off another car. Or use an ABS delete block.

But my original point is: I have all the stuff off an '00 car and it's coated and has zero rust. I can swap my ABS lines out for these non ABS lines it'll look clean and factory. The only problem is the fitting size difference at the proportioning valve, which can be solved with adapter fittings or by using the valve off the '00.

And if you suggest gutting my existing valve, why not gut the '00 valve. The body of it is the same, the mount is different, the internal valves are the same, the internal springs are different.The MM plug covers both years.
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
I'll just do it my own way.

With the ABS you have a four port proportioning valve.

Without ABS you have a five port proportioning valve.

Both proportioning valves have a front and rear proportioning spring.

So if you have ABS, your ABS unit acts as a TEE for the front brakes. One line in, two lines out. It acts as a coupling for the rear brake in and rear brake out.

If your ABS unit is not working that's all it is, a tee, and a coupling.

If you want to get rid of the ABS unit you can use an ABS delete block - still have the same proportioning valve - nothing changes. (except you lose ABS obviously)

Or if you want to get rid of ABS and not splice, couple, tee, etc the lines you can get all the lines off a factory non ABS car, BUT, you need the proportioning valve because you need one with five ports. So it has a rear in, rear out. One front in and two fronts out.

Think you'll run into trouble? Take the springs out of your original 4 port proportioning valve and put them in your new 5 port proportioning valve. THERE WILL BE NO DIFFERENCE.

OR if you don't want to open the system up to fine tune the brake bias by changing the rear spring you eliminate it and install a proportioning valve plug and aftermarket adjustable proportioning valve.

Thats my theory.

Image
 

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#9 ·
That's why I said that I didn't quite follow.
I thought you were trying to avoid buying the ABS delete block and somehow deactivate the ABS system. I gotcha now. You intend to remove the ABS module and the brake lines to/from it.

I would suggest you try cycling the stuck valve a few times before taking this route. You can hear them click when they open/close. Note that if you do free the valve and have it working properly that the code will still be stored in the module, and the light will still illuminate, even though it all passes the test at power up. To remove the code, the system has to pass the tests consecutively for an unknown number of cycles. I say unknown because I have been unable to find documentation on it, and I didn't bother counting the cycles myself.

If you decide to delete the ABS & lines, I still suggest using an adjustable proportion valve. You can gut the stocker/ 00 valve OR just delete it all together with fittings.
 
Discussion starter · #10 ·
Thanks for your help. I gathered the parts, may get more. Still deciding whether to do it or not. It's failed on me twice, first time was the electronic abs module. I changed the whole thing once after that.
I'd like the simple clean look, but not if it's going to be a nightmare.
Either way I'll keep all the parts in case I go back with ABS.
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
I'm not tearing the car apart yet. So I got a prop valve off a '95 GT, same as mine, ABS valve with 4 ports.

Looked at it very thoroughly and found the only difference between the 4 port ABS prop valve and the five port non ABS valve is the 5th port (obviously I guess) but the plug can be taken out of the front line side of an ABS type valve and be replaced with a fitting from any non ABS type valve and you now have a non ABS prop valve.

So if you're doing this swap you can keep your existing prop valve and not have to worry about it being wrong. I've seen people make flares, etc to bypass the ABS unit. This would make one less homemade joint because this port that gets added goes line to the drivers side front, it's short and adding it is would be easier than trying to make a tee work with bubble flares where the ABS unit used to be.

I just thought I'd post that here because I've read a lot about this ABS delete and never seen this information. In fact I've seen a lot of people trying to find a bubble flare tee.

Also if someone did a real Cobra brake swap like I did, it would be very nice if someone had the rear proportioning valve spring available, or at least the specs for it. (if it's even different)

This info is probably 20 years too late but maybe as these cars age people might be able to use it.

Image
 

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#12 ·
As ABS became more and more complex beyond the SN95 level, litigation evidently became more firmly entrenched. ABS was given top priority along the lines of reasoning considering safety/lawsuit likelihood.

My '04 Explorer ABS Module failed, and the vehicle was rendered unusable. Don't know if such reasoning went across the entire Ford line.
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
65 K car original1! said:
As ABS became more and more complex beyond the SN95 level, litigation evidently became more firmly entrenched. ABS was given top priority along the lines of reasoning considering safety/lawsuit likelihood.

My '04 Explorer ABS Module failed, and the vehicle was rendered unusable. Don't know if such reasoning went across the entire Ford line.
Click to expand...
Do you have a point or did you just want to see yourself type that?
 
#14 ·
The FRPP 13" Cobra brake upgrade kit that was sold for the fox bodies came with a SN95 prop valve, the plug to gut it, and an adjustable prop valve to be installed inline for the rear bias. Just FYI
 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
Discussion starter · #16 ·
I swapped it all out today. took 3 hours. I removed the MC lines and plugged them. Removed all existing lines to the rubber hoses up front and the rear line coupling by the passenger side front wheel.
Swapped my original ABS rear proportioning valve spring with the non ABS valve spring in the the 2000 proportioning valve. Installed it into the car.
Installed all lines out of the 2000. Left the fittings loose at the hoses and rear coupling, connected the MC lines and let the fluid run out of the last front and rear fitting and tightened them.

Bled the brakes, didn't get much air out if any (because I let it come out of the new lines before tightening them).

Took it for a ride, can't tell anything is different. The ABS light never comes on (I've read about people removing the bulb), this doesn't even do a bulb check. It's just like a non ABS car.

Drove into town twice today. Did a unplanned emergency stop from 50 to 5 mph. All felt normal.

Waiting for it to rain, I'm going to go to an empty parking lot or back road and see if it really works.
 
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65 K car original1!
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