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Please call me Mike
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am running 2 widebands (one for each bank). For a while now AFR 1 has been acting weird. for example it isn't as stable as #2 and I have been getting AFR 1 fault in tuner studios. I figured it was becuase i stablizing the idle.

I took the car for a drive last night with VEAL turned on. about 5 minutes into the drive my AFR # dropped to 7.5 and stayed there. I pulled over shut the car off waited a few seconds and started it back up. wideband booted up normally and started working for about 45 seconds and then when to 7.5 AFR. repeated the prevoius steps and this time lasted for about 10 seconds.

the MS3 doesn't use both widebands directly just number 1. I configured number 2 to be primary and proceeded on with VEAL making adjustements.

7.5 AFR is 0 volts, I have 0 volts setup for the "fault" I am running 2 Innovate LC-1s. I am going to do some trouble shooting later on (swap sensor to the other controller, check wiring, ec).

Any suggestions as far as brand and module of wideband to get. I have seen some small companies like 14point7 offer decent prices for their widebands. I am not opposed to having a guage in the car, it just has to look good and not be ricey. i am not opposed to innvote or anything just want to see what else folks are running.

thanks :)
cheers
 

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If it's just the sensor why get a new wb when you can get the Bosch sensor for under $40? Mine has never flat out died like that, rather they just read erroneously when they need to be replaced. Then again, it could be reporting 0 simply because it error-ed out (led flashing like 8 times right)
 

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Please call me Mike
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
If it's just the sensor why get a new wb when you can get the Bosch sensor for under $40? Mine has never flat out died like that, rather they just read erroneously when they need to be replaced. Then again, it could be reporting 0 simply because it error-ed out (led flashing like 8 times right)
I think it is something with the controller. I may not even replace it. You really only need one sensor. The only reason you would need two is for individual injector trims. When it was working the two where with in a third of a point.
 

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$40 bucks for the sensor??? Send me the link to that. I have an LC-1 with an xd-16 that i removed due to a bad sensor. Im using just the driver side MTX-L now. Btw, would yall bother with a .1 reading difference between the gauge and tuner studio?
 

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Btw, would yall bother with a .1 reading difference between the gauge and tuner studio?
Bother how? Replace the sensor? I wouldn't. What the gauge says to you isn't as important as what the MS is using to fuel the engine.
 

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I was thinking more along the lines of using a multimeter and checking the wideband output voltage to the gauge and the analog output to the MS, but just figured it wasnt worth the effort for a .1 difference reading. 14.6-1 on the gauge and 14.7-1 in Tuner Studio just doesnt seem like enough difference to fret about. As for a new o2 sensor, I have a LC-1 and xd 16 guage that i removed because the o2 sensor died, so now im running just the MTX-L in the driver side header. If I find a 40 dollar o2 sensor, I might throw the lc-1 back in the car, but the gauge has lost its place to a fuel pressure guage.
 

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Configure the controller to give you a linear output and then check the voltage in tunerstudio looking at the "all channels" tab in the real time display section. You can see the egoV and egoV2 which are the voltages.

If you aren't reading any voltage check the connections first.

If you can read voltages just fine but that sensor is always showing full rich, you probably just need to replace the sensor.

If you did actually need a whole new one I'd probably get a 14point7 unit because I want to try one and they have some that look small enough to mount the controller in the MS case.
 

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Please call me Mike
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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Configure the controller to give you a linear output and then check the voltage in tunerstudio looking at the "all channels" tab in the real time display section. You can see the egoV and egoV2 which are the voltages.

If you aren't reading any voltage check the connections first.

If you can read voltages just fine but that sensor is always showing full rich, you probably just need to replace the sensor.

If you did actually need a whole new one I'd probably get a 14point7 unit because I want to try one and they have some that look small enough to mount the controller in the MS case.
I'm pretty sure its the sensor. when i turn the car on it goes to 14.7 afr which is what i have it programmed for. as soon as it started "reading" the afr is when it faults.I will work on it later on today
 

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im constantly looking to get the most for my dollar, even when it means spending a little more... case in point, i ordered my PiMP and decided to get another Innovate LM2 because, once i have a good tune im planning on switching to open loop and repurposing the wideband to help tune my customers at the track with a tailpipe clamp, and use as an OBD scan tool.
 

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The LM2's are good units, but I've had it with the LC1 units ; I had 3 LC1 controllers go bad in less than 2 months. I'm thinking of swapping to a DIY WBO2 for my current build, and either an LM2 or an NGK AFX for other cars.
 

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Please call me Mike
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I don't know people. I checked all my wiring. Didn't change anything but turned it back on and it's working fine. I don't get it.

I will say routing the lc1 are a pain. Also one of my o2 bungs are in the "not nice " position.

I'm gonna dump another couple hundred into the wiring. Between ground lugs, gxl cable and wire wrap it doesn't take much.

If that doesn't get it I will sell what I got and get something that comes with a ready to go harness.

The ECU is fine, I love it. If I can't wire up a good harness then it's worthless. My buddy said he'd come over and help me solder everything up. He is the best at that stuff.





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I don't know people. I checked all my wiring. Didn't change anything but turned it back on and it's working fine. I don't get it.

I will say routing the lc1 are a pain. Also one of my o2 bungs are in the "not nice " position.

I'm gonna dump another couple hundred into the wiring. Between ground lugs, gxl cable and wire wrap it doesn't take much.

If that doesn't get it I will sell what I got and get something that comes with a ready to go harness.

The ECU is fine, I love it. If I can't wire up a good harness then it's worthless. My buddy said he'd come over and help me solder everything up. He is the best at that stuff.





Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App

FWIW, what I've noticed when the LC1's fail is that they start reporting funny numbers, then start flashing @ 7.4. Upon closer inspection, you'll notice that the LED won't come on at all if the sensor is connected, but will flash constantly with the sensor unplugged, and you cannot communicate with the LC-1 unit via serial. At first, turning it off and letting it sit will cure it for a little while, but it eventually gets to where nothing will revive it.
 

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I was going to ask if anyone had ever torn apart a dead LC-1 controller and tried to fix it, then Googled it instead.

Swatronics: Innovate LC-1 fix and analysis
Brilliant. I will try this and see if it brings the one I have here back to life. If it does, I'll post the steps I used to bring it back. I'm gonna say I'll be more than a little bit pissed if Innovate is charging $40 a pop to reflash the firmware on a device that loses it because of poor design.
 

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The sensor is a wear item. Many things can affect their lifespan like over-rich A/F ratios, high EGTs, moisture, leaded gas, distance from exhaust ports aka heat, placement in your exhaust pipe, etc. Most companies use the Bosch sensors for their widebnds, and at an average price of $60.00 no need to worry, just pickup a replacement, and install it.
 

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My lc2 works for a little then starts flashing and then stays on 7.5. Just when I'm headed out to do some tuning, it starts messing up. Pain in the a$$. Turn car off then on. Works for a little then stops working again. I was looking at the plx wideband but it uses the lsu4.2 sensor also.
 

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Brilliant. I will try this and see if it brings the one I have here back to life. If it does, I'll post the steps I used to bring it back. I'm gonna say I'll be more than a little bit pissed if Innovate is charging $40 a pop to reflash the firmware on a device that loses it because of poor design.
I was a little bit surprised to see that it uses a common Atmel microcontroller. Bosch offers an IC specifically for controlling their wideband sensors and there are other options as well.

Even so, the memory should not be corrupting spontaneously and Atmel typically has their stuff together, so I tend to doubt defective chips....unless Innovate has been using counterfeit Atmel product. (knowingly or not) When you have junk made in China, bootlegs get in the supply chain periodically even when you're dealing with supposedly reputable sources.
 
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