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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys. First of all I want to throw out there that this will be a 95% daily driver car that I will add nitrous to. My question is what size AFRs should I go with, the 165cc or 185cc heads? I noticed on their website that they recommend the Edelbrock Performer RPM manifolds for use with these heads? Is this just partnership crap or is that a good manifold to go with? I ask this because I originally wanted to go with Trick Flow for the manifold but if the RPM is better or would work better in conjuction with the AFRs then I'd be willing to go that route. Any other suggestions on which manifold to go with keeping in mind this will be a street car? Also, what pistons would you guys recommend to go with the AFRs??? Sorry, one more question, do you guys recommend or suggest any pre-fabbed cams to go with this combo?


Thanks
 

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I would say the 165s on a 302. Go with the RPM intake. Probe pistons. There are many cams that would go good with that combo. If you have the money a CUSTOM cam would show the most HP. Alot of companies will custom grind you a cam.
Ed Curtis seems to be hot right now on the custom grind seen.

www.flowtechinduction.com
 

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On a 302 street driving car you can't go wrong with the 165's and the Edlebrock Performer RPM or Performer. Either will do fine for your setup. I know Ed Curtis sells TFS and Edlebrock and runs the Edlebrock intake on these setups. You should call or ask him. He can tell you just what the differences would be and why (he does the research on this stuff).

If you don't want to buy a custom cam you could just use your stock cam and do very well with this setup. Or you could run a custom from someone who knows the whole setup and can optimize your combination for you. Either one will make you happy.

Best of luck to you in whatever way you go.


Ed Stettin
 

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Either one will do well, I have run both. You might find reading the thread "ported stock intake dyno results" for insight on how I made excellent numbers with a stock cam and the 185's.
 

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ndmp40 - thanks for referencing the other thread - I was gonna send him there too. However, I'd not pass final judgement till we get some chassis dyno numbers at rpms lower than 3500; kind of curious what those big port AFR185's and hogged out intake (not unlike the Edelbrock) are gonna do down in the idle to 2500 range for those of us that spend so much time there on the street.
 

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SnDgoStang90...Are you building this motor new? I was just wondering why you were switching pistons? If building new then nuf said. If not, just use the stockers. If the motor is a 90 and has been untouched they are forged and will stand the nitrous shots. Anyway...on a stock 302 and 185's you will most likely have to notch the pistons for the 2.02 valve clearance. 95% daily driver...I'd go with the 165's and either intake. Gobs of torque for around town and they will rev to 53-5500 rpm before the power starts to drop off. From what I hear, the 165's like nitrous anyway. Tom.
 

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TOM89LX50 said:
SnDgoStang90...Are you building this motor new? I was just wondering why you were switching pistons? If building new then nuf said. If not, just use the stockers. If the motor is a 90 and has been untouched they are forged and will stand the nitrous shots. Anyway...on a stock 302 and 185's you will most likely have to notch the pistons for the 2.02 valve clearance. 95% daily driver...I'd go with the 165's and either intake. Gobs of torque for around town and they will rev to 53-5500 rpm before the power starts to drop off. From what I hear, the 165's like nitrous anyway. Tom.
Yep the 165's with the 58cc combustion chambers love the go go juice
 

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Michael Yount said:
ndmp40 - thanks for referencing the other thread - I was gonna send him there too. However, I'd not pass final judgement till we get some chassis dyno numbers at rpms lower than 3500; kind of curious what those big port AFR185's and hogged out intake (not unlike the Edelbrock) are gonna do down in the idle to 2500 range for those of us that spend so much time there on the street.

Well, old habits do die hard.
Fair enough on the "low end" torque numbers, but with over 380fwtq at 3500, how low do you think it is at 2500? With a stock cam its not gonna be a light switch!
I built this engine for a daily driver. AOD even. It will have brutal torque for what I have in it, and excellent top end as well. Do you think its going to be a dog down low? What is your basis for thinking this?
If you read carefully I said both the 165 and 185 would work. I could have used 165's, but would have had to cam it to make the numbers I made. People can use whatever parts they want. With the right combination of parts even stock heads can make decent numbers. I posted my results for the benefit of those who wish to gain from my work.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
TOM89LX50 said:
SnDgoStang90...Are you building this motor new? I was just wondering why you were switching pistons? If building new then nuf said. If not, just use the stockers. If the motor is a 90 and has been untouched they are forged and will stand the nitrous shots. Anyway...on a stock 302 and 185's you will most likely have to notch the pistons for the 2.02 valve clearance. 95% daily driver...I'd go with the 165's and either intake. Gobs of torque for around town and they will rev to 53-5500 rpm before the power starts to drop off. From what I hear, the 165's like nitrous anyway. Tom.
Yeah, I'm going to use the block that's in it now but I was just curious if I should throw new pistons in it while I'm at it. So it's ok to use the stockers? Will I have to cut that notch for the 165ccs? Can anyone give me a rundown on how to have a custom cam built? Do I just give them my combo and they do the rest? I do want a good/fair idle for streetability but don't want to chince on power by going too mild. How about the E303? No? Anyone suggest a good street mannered cam that would work well with the 165cc/RPM set up?

Thanks
 

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You seem defensive ndmp - no need to be. You've already created 'brutal torque' - your numbers bear that out; clearly well done. In fact, that's why I wanted the original poster to see the other thread about your combo. It's just that we don't have the whole picture yet, for good reasons regarding the nature of the engine dyno used for measuring your combo.

And let's be completely fair - you're the one that was less than forthcoming with info -- let's see, how did you put it -- ' I've gotta keep some of the secrets to myself', or words to that effect. Your perogative to make that call no doubt. However, without the benefit of seeing the shape of the curve, I have no way of knowing what's gonna happen on the lower end. It's not the stock cam I'm wondering about. It's the combination of large cross section manifold runners/head ports, big valves and low rpm that I'm wondering about. That's all.

There are lots of combos out there that make brutal torque. But with 300 cubes keeping the peak 'brutal', while the curve is relatively flat and strong at ultra low rpm is difficult. And at low rpm that becomes more difficult as those port cross sections become larger and flow velocities decrease. You've clearly done a cool job on the combo - hope to see the chassis dyno results, and maybe even a curve so we can see what the slope is down around 1800 or so. 'Course, with an aod, and a bit looser converter, we may not get a totally accurate picture down low even then.

SnDgo - the custom grinders will work with you very closely. They'll request all sorts of info about your combo, and about your desires regarding where you want it to make power, drivability characteristics, idle characteristics, etc. Armed with that info they can model your set up and come up with camshaft parameters that will help you achieve what you're after - within the limits of your components of course.
 

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As everyone else stated the 165's would be our preference. Not to take anything away from NDMP.

The Edelbrock intake is a better matched intake than the Trick Flow, even though we sell the Trick Flows we refer customers to the Edelbrock product.

As far as I know AFR has no affiliation with Edelbrock at all, just simply making an honest recommendation on parts that fit and work well with their products.

Brian
 

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SnDgoStang90 said:
Yeah, I'm going to use the block that's in it now but I was just curious if I should throw new pistons in it while I'm at it. So it's ok to use the stockers? Will I have to cut that notch for the 165ccs? Can anyone give me a rundown on how to have a custom cam built? Do I just give them my combo and they do the rest? I do want a good/fair idle for streetability but don't want to chince on power by going too mild. How about the E303? No? Anyone suggest a good street mannered cam that would work well with the 165cc/RPM set up?

Thanks
If you are doing a complete tear down then go ahead and replace those things, but the stock pistons will hold up to moderate nitrous I think. You will not have to notch stock pistons when using 165's. I like the performance of my E Cam, its n/a though. If you are dead set on nitrous there are probably better cams out there, off the shelf or custom. Tom.
 
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