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i usualy just down shift and nail it. no mercy man drive it like you stole it:evil:
 

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I usually rev match. It just feels smoother, and seems to be easier on the driveline.
 

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DEFINITELY rev match it...it's so much easier on the car/clutch/tranny and it sounds sweet. The proper way is heel/toe downshifting. Using your toe on the brake, heel on the gas (I think this is right?) and match the rpms during the shift. I do a variation of it cuz my feet are too big for heel toe in my stang. I drive with the edge of my foot on the brake pedal, when it's time to down shift, I roll my foot over on the gas while braking to effectively do the same thing. It works great and it's smooth as hell. You just have to know where to take the rpms at which mph. I do it by sound...I can just hear it. You'll learn after a while...it will become second nature. You'll get really fast at it too...it helps during those times that you want to jump up and go quick and smoothly. I'm so used to doing it that when I now try to get in my dad's diesel silverado and try to do the same thing, out of habit, I end up nearly wrecking the thing....it's impossible given the distance between the pedals in his truck!! Good luck

Mike
 

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Rollin Hammer

No heel/toe needed here, just go for the rev matching. Heel/Toe is best use to transfer the cars weight during cornering etc.

To practice rev matching just run the RPM's up in the various gears, noting the recipricals for the MPH/RPM. This will give you ballpark number where the RPM should be when you wanna' bang to a lower gear.

For example (these numbers aren't correct), if you are doing 40MPH that will equal ~1200-RPM in 5th, 1600-RPM in 4th, 2000-RPM in 3rd, 2400-RPM in 2nd. If you shift from 4th to 2nd, you need to get the RPM's to at least 2400-RPM so when you let out the clutch you don't feel that lug and loss of power and momentum.

Also try to understand the dynamic power curve from your dyno results to best use your available power. This is a valuable tool that can be used to tell when the best time to upshift is. If the power curve peaks at say 5200 (HP/torque) and tails off after that you know it's time to move into another gear to extract more of the potential power. These numbers are unique for every car setup/tuning.

Hop
 

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Re: Rollin Hammer

Hoppy said:
Heel/Toe is best use to transfer the cars weight during cornering etc.
Hop
I believe you're thinking of trail braking, lightly letting off the brake in the middle of a corner to get more weight transfer to the rear tires. The bulk of your down shifting should be done before you even begin your turn. Heel/toe is mainly for racing trannys that have no synchros and matching RPMs is mandatory. Although everyone heel/toes now (including me) on any tranny, mainly to keep things smoooooooth...and, of course, to impress your friends. ;)
 

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Re: Re: Rollin Hammer

Wolfie351 said:
I believe you're thinking of trail braking, lightly letting off the brake in the middle of a corner to get more weight transfer to the rear tires. The bulk of your down shifting should be done before you even begin your turn. Heel/toe is mainly for racing trannys that have no synchros and matching RPMs is mandatory. Although everyone heel/toes now (including me) on any tranny, mainly to keep things smoooooooth...and, of course, to impress your friends. ;)

Trail braking-- (a.k.a. brake turning, trailing-brake) continuing to use braking to slow the vehicle down after the turn-in for a corner has occured. Conventional theory says all braking should be done before the car begins to turn for a corner. However, recent race driving strategy has recognized a benefit to balancing the use of the available traction, and to use the initial turn-in phase to continue to slow the vehicle down with braking.

Rev-matching refers to matching the engine speed to the transmission input speed before re-engaging the clutch. This is particularly desirable when downshifting for a corner. In a hard corner, the suspension needs to be stable and the tires need to be loaded so that all of their traction is being used to generate cornering force. If the engine is at a different speed than the transmission input when the clutch is re-engaged, this will generate a force on the driveline that will upset the stability of the suspension and will cause the tires to exceed their traction capability if the corner is being taken near the limit.

You are 100% correct about using heel/toe for the non synchro-mesh tranny. Heel/Toe is a technique that can used to accomplish several tasks. Since the cars we drive have synchro-mesh transmissions, double clutching and blipping is not always needed. Heel toe can certainly be used for rev matching to stabilze the car for turn in etc.. as well as adjusting the weight/traction load used to settle the chassis.

I think that Black01GT4.6 is just talking about "droppin' da hammer" on someone on a straight away, and not about getting through a corner. That is why I mentioned no need for heel/toe.

Here's a little exercise to help develop experience and achieve the desired skill set.
EXERCISE:
On a straight section of road, establish a steady speed in fifth gear (perhaps 50MPH). Without breaking (use your right foot on the gas pedal only), downshift into forth. Try to blip the gas as the shift lever passes through neutral so that the car doesn't doesn't pull backwards or forwards when the clutch is re-engaged. Don't try to accelerate once you're in forth. Just continue to maintain a steady speed. Shift back up into fifth. Again, try not to jerk the car. Repeat this sequence going back and forth from fifth to forth. If you've got everything right and smooth, the car will just go steady down the road as if you weren't shifting. The only thing different is the sound of the engine changing speeds. At least at first, don't worry about making the shift fast.

Next, try the same thing going back and forth between fifth and third. This will require a little more gas when blipping the throttle. Focus on keeping the car's forward motion rock-steady.

Once you've got that down, try different sequences of third, forth and fifth.

At this point, you might want to throw in double-clutching while downshifting. As the shift lever passes through neutral, momentarily let up the clutch pedal at the same time the throttle is being blipped. If it's done correctly, the shift lever should slip into place much easier than without double-clutching, especially when going from fifth to third.

Try a similar exercise at 40MPH using second, third and forth. When you can downshift into second (this usually requires double clutching) at 40MPH and not affect the car's motion, you've got a good handle on this exercise.

The last part of this exercise is to accelerate at the end of a downshift. The idea is to be going at a steady speed, downshift by two gears, and take off. Try to integrate this into a single fluid motion. The acceleration should just appear as a big push from behind, without any jerking. Slow back down to a steady speed and repeat.

It is a rare automatic transmission that can downshift from speed as good as a well done downshift with a manual.

If you are new to this, I wouldn't proceed past this exercise for at least several days of practice, and probably weeks.

Hop
 

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When I downshift to get on it I like to double clutch it. Less jerk. It took me a while to get efficent like that but now I do it second nature and it doesn't take me anymore time to do it.
 

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if i'm passing or need to get moving quickly i just gear down and nail it.
if i'm just putting around town i don't even use the clutch most of the time!
 

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Double clutch........so you push the clutch in and take it into neutral. Then you let up on the clutch for a split second and then depress the clutch again and select the next gear.

What an absolute waist of time. That is the stupidest way of driving a tranny with synchros that I have ever heard of.
That frellin movie Fast and stupid has a lot to answer for.

Yes I am being harsh and make no apologies. Double clutching was a way of driving big rigs and crash boxes and has no place in modern transmissions.

Dwayne
 

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If you are on a road course....for the sake of your tranny and driveline, by all means heel-toe. It's a good technique to know.

On the highway when blowing off an individual, I have many times dropped from 5th to 3rd... I drive my car like I stole it..... Clutch in whilst in 5th, I bring the revvs to f riggin 6k, and dump it (power shift) into third at WOT. There are few cars on the road (particularly ricers) that have an answer for that.

On down ramps I'll match revvs, but I usually am not traveling at that high of a relative speed to require heel-toe.
 

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extended clutch life

unless u like to buy new clutch disks do not ride the clutch.

bring up the revs...match engine speed to tranny input shaft speed...

I let my bro drive my car once and i got tired of him riding the clutch with every shift so he had to get out :rolleyes:
 

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46GTSblown said:
Double clutch........so you push the clutch in and take it into neutral. Then you let up on the clutch for a split second and then depress the clutch again and select the next gear.

What an absolute waist of time. That is the stupidest way of driving a tranny with synchros that I have ever heard of.
That frellin movie Fast and stupid has a lot to answer for.

Yes I am being harsh and make no apologies. Double clutching was a way of driving big rigs and crash boxes and has no place in modern transmissions.

Dwayne
I DISAGREE!

RPM Matching for downshifting is something that will save the synchros plus make for better cornering at speeds.

AND double clutching for upshift is a good way to get around a worn-out synchro. Works better than trying diff tranny fluids - especially that GM product everyone says is so great.
 

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If you are just driving normally there is no need for double clutch with a trans with synchronizers. However if you are trying to rev match I would suggest engaging the clutch, shifting to neutral, match the revs, engage clutch and shift to lower gear.

rev matching with the clutch engaged, good way to wear out your clutch.

If we are talking about passing or emergency situations that require speed, I don't waste time looking at my tach or rev matching, it wastes too much time.

I plan on replacing my clutch, flywheel and majority of my trans after ragging on it throughout the stock warranty :)

Plus i like the kick in the butt feeling you get when you just drop it from 5th to 3rd at 50-70 MPH. If I wanted a smooth shift feeling I would of bought a lexus.
 

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?? I forget[/i] [B] Re: Rollin Hammer Originally posted by Hoppy Heel/Toe is best use to transfer the cars weight during cornering etc. Hop I believe you're thinking of trail braking said:
I DISAGREE!

RPM Matching for downshifting is something that will save the synchros plus make for better cornering at speeds.

AND double clutching for upshift is a good way to get around a worn-out synchro. Works better than trying diff tranny fluids - especially that GM product everyone says is so great.
I still think double clutching is outdated. why go through all that moving around when you can just push in the clutch, take it out of gear, put it in the lower gear, rev the gas and dump the clutch?? you only need to push in the clutch once, don't you? I may be wrong, just asking. I never understood clutching twice. and YES Fast and The Furious has something to answer too!! tell me why you would double clutch in a race when you are only shifting up?? *L*
i've noticed that when i'm gonna pass someone, i'll clutch, take out of gear, and rev quite a bit as i put it into my passing gear, then let out the clutch and floor it. the car doesn't seem to jerk as much. i think that's kinda a habit thing now.
aaaaaaaaaaaanyway, i think we're all saying that reving before you let out the clutch is a bit easier on the tranny, right?
 

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I double clutch when upshifting into third gear because if I didnt there would be a bad grind. There still is a slight grind when getting on it even when I double-clutch. Once you get proficient at it - double-clutching that is, it does not take that much more time. Hell, I will be going to the dragstrip soon here in GA and it will be my first time. I will see how I do with the double-clutching into third.

Also, those that dont blip the throttle when downshifting - why do you think some complain so much about their tranny when others say they have 100,000+ miles with no issues? I think it is because some dont know the "way" and others do. Perhaps? Maybe?

I think I caused my own problem with my 3rd gear synchro just becuase of doing the very same thing natx808 stated he likes to do - downshifting from 5th into 3rd on the highway without bliping throttle to bring the rpms up. I feel doing that feels much worse than blipping when downshifting. Once you get the hang of it you will see what "feels" better and what "sounds" better. Big difference. Dont knock it until you actually do it - correctly.

Trust me on this one - you will not do well on a road course if you dont do things like blipping throttle when downshifting approaching a turn. One thing is for sure you will not feel as comfortable with the car at speeds if you dont. Not doing so makes the car seem that much more unstable.

Double clutching as well as bliping throttle when downshifting also saves wear and tear on the clutch. So take it for what it is worth.


Just my opinion, but also backed by others exeperiences as well as my own.
 
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