Ford Mustang Forums banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
866 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
[Actually for Panoz with '98 Cobra drivetrain]
Current mods in sig. What's the next bolton mod for my '98 Cobra engine? Must stay CARB / smog legal for CA. Primary use is autocross & "spirited" street driving. Suspension / handling is already tuned to the max; concentrating on engine mods now.

1. JBA shorty headers (10 RWHP / $500-$1000)

2. aluminum driveshaft (??? RWHP / $ ????)

3. aftermarket MAF sensor (5-10 RWHP / $ ????)

... or something else ... ???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
277 Posts
Curious - why didn't you do exhaust yet? That's usually one of the first mods for our cars and a catted X/H pipe + catback will get you as much or more hp than headers for several hundred dollars less, plus the install is a couple of hours rather than a day-long project. Just my opinion, but others might disagree.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,502 Posts
You're not going to get much 'spirited' street driving with 3.73's and a DOHC motor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
213 Posts
Get an offroad h-pipe and just swap back on the stock piece once a year or whatever when you get CARB certified. Also, get rid of the 3.73 and get 4.30s or 4.56s.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,154 Posts
I think he's got the 3.73s in there for road racing. I'm not sure if they make O/R H's for Panoz cars, if not, I'd go with the headers; have to open the exhaust up. I'm also not sure if a UPR N/A powerpipe would fit, but that's a solid choice as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
866 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
You're not going to get much 'spirited' street driving with 3.73's and a DOHC motor.
:bs: On a 2,400 lb. car..... I have 1,000 lbs. less mass than a Mustang, a P/W ratio of 8.1 lbs. per horsepower, equivalent to 432 horsepower in a 3,500 lb. Mustang... but you still think I need 4.1 gears? How much more gear do you think I can use when it already does 0-60 in 4 seconds and can smoke the tires at over 60 mph? And for autocross / road racing the 4.1 gears SLOW YOU DOWN because you have to shift to 3rd. Sure they may be great for drag racing but that's not my thing.

Get an offroad h-pipe and just swap back on the stock piece once a year or whatever when you get CARB certified.
Nice idea, but I'm too lazy for that. Want the car to be street / smog legal all the time. The Panoz "stock" exhaust system has an H pipe with no mufflers. Just dual 3" diameter pipes from the cats back.

So what should I do, keeping the car CARB / smog legal?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,099 Posts
The bigger 1-5/8" JBA shorties should net you about 10rwhp. As mentioned above, a power pipe should also net some decent HP(5-9rwhp roughly).

Does your car run off of the Ford EEC-V? There is a guy on here that has found out how to modify the stock intake without losing TQ or HP anywhere in the RPM band but gaining about 18rwhp 20rwtq. Do a search for "Results from short runner intake" or the user name "Blown46cobra" and you should be able to easily find the thread. Looks like the intake/IMRC Deletes will run about $900 and you will need a custom tuned chip to take advantage of the new setup. However, it gained hp/tq across the entire RPM band so the Avg Hp/Tq is about 13-15 higher at that the wheels.

Maybe a timing adjuster if you don't decide to get a chip burned.

Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
866 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
The bigger 1-5/8" JBA shorties should net you about 10rwhp.

Thanks... about the same gain as the pulleys, but much, much more expensive. But maybe worth it considering it's bolt-on with no negative impact.

As mentioned above, a power pipe should also net some decent HP(5-9rwhp roughly).

What is a power pipe (OK I know stupid question) but what is it?

Does your car run off of the Ford EEC-V? There is a guy on here that has found out how to modify the stock intake without losing TQ or HP anywhere in the RPM band but gaining about 18rwhp 20rwtq.

Saw that. Was impressed. Will consider it, but only after doing the "bolt-on" mods as this one is pretty intensive, requiring remapping the ignition timing to compensate for the IMRC delete.

Maybe a timing adjuster if you don't decide to get a chip burned.

How much extra power are people getting with the Steeda timing adjuster on a '98 engine running 92 Octane gas? How much more for 93 Octane? For 100 Octane?

So the aluminum driveshaft doesn't make any difference? My car doesn't vibrate, so I'm concerned only whether it frees up any RWHP.

Thanks,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,172 Posts
Mike- The timing adjuster gives a HUGE difference in low end and mid range. I have mine at 14* and I noticed a difference immidiately...definetly worth the $170. And yes i run pump gas, 93 octane from any Mobil or Sonoco or whatever.
If you want to stay emissions legal, get a catted X pipe and see if an exhaust shop could fit it for you, if not maybe buy some high flow cats and get a whole custom pipe made.
A power pipe is the tube that goes from the Throttle body to the MAF and puts the filter on the Mass air. No crinkle in the pipe for the strut tower brace and I think the diameter of the pipe is a little bigger then stock too.
MAF's aren't a bad choice either, get a Pro-M 80 race meter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
866 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Mike- The timing adjuster gives a HUGE difference in low end and mid range. I have mine at 14* and I noticed a difference immidiately...definetly worth the $170. And yes i run pump gas, 93 octane from any Mobil or Sonoco or whatever.

Great. Here in the people's republik of California, we only get 91 octane. But the 76 station down the road has 100 octane unleaded which I mix with 91 to get "full" octane so that is doable...

If you want to stay emissions legal, get a catted X pipe and see if an exhaust shop could fit it for you, if not maybe buy some high flow cats and get a whole custom pipe made.

Again, due to the tree-hugger greenies out here, we can't run anything unless it's CARB approved. Even if it reduces tailpipe emissions to less than a fart from a groundhog, if it ain't CARB approved then it ain't legal.

A power pipe is the tube that goes from the Throttle body to the MAF and puts the filter on the Mass air. No crinkle in the pipe for the strut tower brace and I think the diameter of the pipe is a little bigger then stock too.

Then my Panoz already has one in stock trim. That's exactly what it already looks like -- short & straight with a K&N filter on the end. No bend, kink or crinkle.

Thanks for the tips,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,313 Posts
1. Get the JBA 1 5/8" ceramic coated headers.

2. Get yourself just the X section from either Dr. Gas, Bassani, or Magnaflow. You can buy just the X part without having to buy a complete exhaust kit. Get rid of the H section and have the X welded in.

Those 2 mods alone should get you another 15-20 RWHP.

3. Then take the car and get a "GOOD" dyno tune. Use either Autologic or Superchips by a experienced tuner and let them tune the A/F ratio to avg. 12.8-13.0 and add alittle timing. If you don't want to spend the money for a tune then get yourself one of the Steeda T/A's so you can play with the timing yourself.

After that it looks like you will have to be going to a ported intake and some IMRC deletes. Of course this is going to require a bigger investment (money wise) and you are looking at a alittle more involvment than your normal aftermarket bolt-on. But, there is some good power to be found in opening up the intake. I suggest a PHP stage 2 intake, IMRC deletes, and a Accufab single blade T.B. You can look for another 25-30 RWHP with NO low end torque loss.

With all my aboved mentioned mods I think that extra 50-60 RWHP and another 15-18 RWTQ would help to move that 2400lbs. quite nicely! :evilgrin:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,280 Posts
Michael, you next mod should be to bring that bad boy back home to Road Atlanta so you and I can take a few laps in it. We can compare it's performance to my Cobra's. It may not make your car go any faster, but I guarrantee it WILL put a smile on my face. Come on, it'll be fun.

Sorry, I'm just an envious bastard. 4 seconds to 60. Giddy Up!:evil:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
866 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Thanks guys for all the tips. Here is what I gather from all of this, knowing I will keep my car CARB / smog legal.

1. JBA 1 5/8" headers (only ones that are CARB approved).
+10 RWHP

2. Weld in an X section to replace the H section in the tailpipe (will it still pass smog... who knows?)
+10 RWHP

3. MAF: Pro-M 80 race meter. How does this improve power? Is the stock MAF too rich or too lean?

4. Steeda timing adjuster, advance timing by a few degrees. Is 14 degrees for 93 octane safe, or will it vary from one engine to another?

5. Driveshaft -- Aluminum makes no difference in RWHP?

6. One trip to Road Atlanta to meet the Panoz guys in person and kick some a-s-s on the track.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,099 Posts
Every car will be different. Some cobras do better with 13* timing while others do better with 15* or 16* timing. However, the majority of the cobra guys with TA's seem to run 14* timing on Premium Pump gas. Up high here in the Rocky Mtns I only have access to 91 octane at the pumps. I run about 13* timing on my 88 5.0, but the base timing was set at about 8*. So I am actually running 5* higher than stock timing on 91 octane. I had it set on 15* and 14* but I could hear some pinging.

If I were to have a TA or Tuner I would probably start out at 13* timing. Keep in mind this is on a high altitude/lower octane(91) car. My heads have also been ever so slightly shaved, so my compression is slightly higher as well.

An x-pipe is said to sound more "exotic" as opposed to "muscle-car" so that may be something favorable for you as far as sound goes.

The intake idea is nice, but should probably be the last mod. However it will save you some money if you decide now whether or not you want to go that route. Reason being is that if you decide that you eventually want to go that route, you won't need to spend $170 on the T/A because the custom chip will take care of that for you.

The headers are about half the cost of the intake setup, but about half the gain in Hp/Tq. Ends up costing about the same $ per HP. The intake and headers will work better as a "combo" but they will also show decent gains by themselves.

From what limited physics I have taken, an Alum D/S will help ONLY if it is the same size or smaller in diameter than the stock D/S. The FMS Alum D/S is 6lbs lighter than stock but is bigger in diameter than stock. So by the time you move the weight further from the center, you have approx. the same inertia/rotational mass. If you get an Alum D/S, I would suggest the Griggs unit. It is supposed to be the same size as the stock D/S but be about 7 or 8lbs lighter(not 100% sure on the weight, but I am about the diameter).

The MAF will probably be slightly more accurate at reading incoming air. Some MAF also partly trick the EEC into running slightly lean. Again, this is something that a good tuner can do with the stock MAF curves, tables, etc so this should be last on your list. Probably the most expensive $ per HP on your list(not counting D/S as a "HP" mod).
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,154 Posts
You're not going to gain 10rwhp by switching from an X to an H. I've actually lost 8rwhp and 10+rwtq across the band (peak numbers listed) when switching from a BBK O/R H to a Bassani O/R X.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
866 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Fourcam281 said:
You're not going to gain 10rwhp by switching from an X to an H. I've actually lost 8rwhp and 10+rwtq across the band (peak numbers listed) when switching from a BBK O/R H to a Bassani O/R X.
Well I sure appreciate that data point. It would suck to go through all that work and actually lower P & T.

BTW, I saw your 1.657 60' time and I think that is the lowest I've ever seen. How did you launch that (slip vs. dump, what RPM)?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
213 Posts
Fourcam281 said:
You're not going to gain 10rwhp by switching from an X to an H. I've actually lost 8rwhp and 10+rwtq across the band (peak numbers listed) when switching from a BBK O/R H to a Bassani O/R X.
I was just about to say the same thing. I actually changed from an offroad x-pipe to an offroad h-pipe because on the 4V engines, the H shape makes better power. This has been dyno proven. Stick with the hpipe, it sounds better anyway.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,154 Posts
Michael,
The short time was attained using a 7k clutch dump on 26x10" MT ET Drags with 4.56 gears.
Also, you may not fully realize the potential of the JBAs with the standard H pipe. I'm not sure how restrictive the stock Panoz piece is, but it would be beneficial to swap out both the stock H (if it's as restrictive as on the Mustangs) and headers at the same time. Also, as much as you'll probably hate hearing this, O/R pipes do make more HP/torque than catted versions. I know you already stated that you don't want to swap crossovers for emissions testing, but with some practice, it's literally a 20 minute job.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,313 Posts
Pat96Cobra said:


I was just about to say the same thing. I actually changed from an offroad x-pipe to an offroad h-pipe because on the 4V engines, the H shape makes better power. This has been dyno proven.
I think Bob Cosby and a few others on here would beg to differ with that statement. The fastest N/A cars on this board (with exception to J. Myers and Fourcam) ALL run X-pipes, and I think that if the H made that much of a power difference then these guys would be running an H set-up as well. I have seen dyno test that show gains with the X over the H. This may not work for every car but, most of the time the X will make better power. I think that alot of it may have to do with the rest of your combo. Anyway, to each his own. Now, as for some more mods that would help, the Pro-M 80mm will help and if you wanted to change D/S then you can gain alittle power out of a PST carbon fiber D/S. Good luck with what ever you chose.

Peace out! :cool:
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top