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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
well i cant decided between the kit you see below from Ed Curtis or just going with the 5psi vortech kit. heres what i lookes like price wise....

AFR 165 emission heads: $1325
Valve Spring Upgrade: $125
Viton Seal Upgrade: $32
ARP 7/16 Rocker Studs: $25
Custom Camshaft: $325
Scorpion 1.60 Roller Rockers: $200
Billet Roller Timing Set: have

Misc.:
Head Gaskets: have
Intake Gasket: have
Timing Set Gasket: $15
Eaton Lifters: have
Hardened Push Rods: $112
ARP Head Bolts: have

then UPS shipping : 100 bucks as a low guess

so that ends up costing me about $2259 as a rough estimate.

then on the other hand if i went with the Vortech V-1 sc-trim with 5 psi i could pick that up for anywhere around 1600-1800 dollars. for those of you with the 5 psi do you guys have any dyno numbers on a stock short block, would it help alot to port my heads? also should i keep my edelbrock performer intake or will it not help that much. I need opinions quick because i need to get my car back together. which one would make more power? be more dependable? all that kinda stuff. thanks guys
 

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Do the blower.......You'll be glad you did!

HCI cars that are WELL tuned, typical bolt on, nothing fancy, with a 302 + H/C/I are typically in the 310-330 RWHP range...some more some less. I had a Carbed 331, AFR's, Cam, Victor Jr, 1 3/4 full lengths, etc....dynoed at 445 at the flywheel, that is about 380rwhp.

now for the blower...

there is a bunch of guys running sc-trims with a few inexpensive upgrades to total maybe $2K, and seeing 8-10 psi...that will dyno 330-350 rwhp....add a few more things and see much more.

I'm in the 350+ area with a 100K mile shortblock, stock cam, Cheap GT-40 iron heads, a used performer intake, and 65mm tb......I bet I'm really close to 375rwhp and I have a wimpy A-trim....Runs, Starts, Drives like stock (stock cam).....

Next winter I'll be doing a fresh shortblock, mild cam, and maybe a better set of heads......I'll still have less than my Stroker AFR motor in terms of $$$$ and be making more power, and have better street manners....
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
thanks shifter, what are the few inexpensive upgrades you are refering to? What do you have done to make 350+, o nevermind just looked in sig
 

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I did the SC first and am glad I did. Takes less time to install than H/C/I would prolly. I still need check the numbers on the dyno one of these days. Next year it will be H/C and a pulley change. Shooting for 400-450 rwhp.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
What will i need to bump the boost up? what will i need to upgrade?

injectors
mass air
ignition
t-rex

anything else?
 

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Check www.superchargers4less.com You can get a Vortech s-trim or v2 sq-trim for about $2200. It is worth the extra couple hundred bucks.
 

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Trust me on this one... GET THE VORTECH! If you had the funds for the FTI setup then roll $150 of it into an 8-rib 7" crank pulley. That way you don't have to break the seal on the superchargers pulley, and you'll see between 2 and 4 psi more. Make sure to get teh 8-rib though -- all you have to do is leave the front two ribs open and you'll have room to grow in the future.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
what all would i need over the SC-trim kit to run more boost? would it be cheaper just to save up for the S trim?
 

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The SC Trim is almost identical to the S Trim. The only difference is you have to spin it's impeller about 3k RPM faster to see the same results.

I didn't care about the warrantee. I switched over to an 8-rib setup using a 7" crank pulley. With a 3" SC pulley I was seeing 10 to 12 psi at 6k RPM's. I then put a 2.85" SC pulley on it and was seeing 18 psi at 6,500 RPM's. The SC Trim spins faster and is more efficient than the S Trim according to Vortech's website.

Plenty of people will chime in and say to save for the S Trim, but that's because the SC Trim hasn't been out long enough for many people to know much about it. Don't listen to anyone who compares it to the A Trim -- that's comparing apples to oranges. The SC Trim is capable of moving 1,000 cfm and compressing it up to 20 psi... just like the S Trim -- both are rated at 680 horsepower.

But like I said... it LOVES RPM's... so you have to spin it a little faster.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
i love rpms to but i dont know if my 120,000 motor would, i would think it would be nicer to have the boost come in alitter earlier, but i dont know, what kinda power did you make? Did you ever run the sc trim with the stock pulleys and if so how did you like it? i just am not sure if i should save for the s-trim or not.
 

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Don't relate engine RPM's to supercharger RPM's... All you have to do to a supercharger is change out pulleys, and you can have it make power ANYWHERE you want it to. Put a 8" crank pulley and 2.5" compressor pulley on it and you'll be making more boost than you'll know what to do with around 4k RPM's :)

I did install the SC Trim kit as it was supplied. I had my motor set to a 6k RPM rev limiter via my MSD-6AL box. Right before I hit my limiter I was seeing 5 to 6 psi. My motor started out at 276 rwhp -- so a stock engine would probably see a little more boost. I then swapped on a 3.125" pulley and was seeing 8 to 11 psi at my rev limiter. I never got a chance to dyno, but at 10 psi I ran 12.702 @ 116 MPH (on a 2.0x 60 ft). My previous best on motor was 12.9 @ 106 MPH (on a 1.72 60 ft). My supercharged run was on a very hot day, my car was VERY out of tune, but I had to see what it could do :) I was also boucing my rev limiter on every shift thanks to my 4.10 gears :(
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
that seems kinda weak that the sc only took off .2 in the quater but i guess there is a big difference in the 60ft times also. and mph for that matter. i plan on going with 3.73. would you recommend upgrading the igniton? do you know if that vortec on that comes with the s trim has a rev limiter?
 

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An S Trim would have had the same effect. The base S Trim kit installs 8 to 10 psi -- which is how much boost I seen that day. It was over 100* on the track, I was running street tires, and my motor temp was well above 200*. In 1st and 2nd gear as soon as my boost gauge would see 5 psi my back tires would break loose. Most people that run in the 116 MPH range are running LOW 11's. It's all about knowing how to drive your car (which I didn't at that point) and being able to put the power to the pavement.

I don't think the BTM that comes with the S Trim has a rev limiter. I installed my MSD-6AL years before the supercharger. I think if you want a BTM and a ignition box you have to buy the MSD-6AL-BTM combo box (red). The Vortech BTM (blue) is just a piggy back that'll allow you to pull timing. Regardless of ignition system.
 

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You can run the S or the SC Trim without that $400 MSD box. A lot of people will set timing low and listen for detoniation. I went the other route and locked my timing at 20*. I could probably get away with more timing, but the power I felt I was very happy with. I'm not out to squeeze every last HP out of my motor. I just want it fast, fun and safe.

Either way you go, FTI or Vortech, I think you'll be more than happy. IMO, the blower will be more reliable. Both setups also have pros and cons.

I never had a single issue running stock heads. In two different motors I've had valve train issues with aftermarket heads. When I was running the stock cam I never had to worry about the car surging or dieing at a redlight. Your car will also be down longer if you have to do a cam change. Personally I think it sucks changing the cam with the motor in the car. I'd save changing heads and cam for when you can slowly build up a fresh shortblock.

The biggest con of the V1 blower is the noise it makes. The Vortech V1 is very loud :) Most people love it, and you'll turn heads on the streets. The biggest PRO of it is you're not putting stress on the motor until you go WOT. And with that high mile shortblock 5 to 10 psi isn't going to hurt it. It took me two days to install my SC Trim. And my install included changing my water pump and throwing on a set of 42# injectors.

Either way you go you'll have to have it dyno tuned anyways. The only difference is with the FMU you may have to recal it so you don't go too rich or possibly too lean. It's very simple to do, and both kits come with a FMU.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
how many miles did you motor have on it with your stock heads? right now i have a set of new lifters and a timing chain that i could send back and add that to the SC or a power pipe, but i dont know if i should replace them or not, same with the valve springs. what do you guys think?
 

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Here is a small list of what you'd need to get started on the route to sc-trim land....

SC trim- $1600
Alum discharge/bypass- $200
7" crank pulley- $125
Power pipe-$150
30# injectors and Pro M 80- (I have this setup used, but like new- 2K miles- that I'll probably be selling soon- as I've found a set of 36's, contact me if you're interested)


That is how I started, except that I have the A-trim which isn't near the blower that the SC is.
BONE STOCK plus the A-trim at 5 psi = 276rwhp

then I added the 8 rib pulleys and was seeing 8-9psi, I also added the alum discharge and bypass as well as the 30# injectors /Pro M 80 set up.....drivability was still like stock and I went over 300 rwhp.

Now I added the GT-40 irons/performer setup on my 102K mile shortblock and should be 350+....
 

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How does the car run right now? Does it still feel strong? Does it feel like it's missing or anything like that? If it idles, cruises and accelerates fine I'd leave it alone. There's quite a bit of labor in a timing chain job. I won't replace one until I KNOW I have to, or I'll replace it every time I have the front of the engine apart for whatever reason.

I'd leave the heads alone too... unless your car puffs black smoke or anything like that. If that's the case I'd have them freshened up, but not ported. If you have the heads off I'd go ahead and throw the new lifters in. If your car isn't smoking I'd either shelf them, sell them, or return them. I go by the saying, "If it isn't broke, don't try to fix it."

With a stock cam you're not going to be turning anymore RPM's than what you have been. So the springs should be just fine. Regardless, your motor is going to shut you down at 6,250 RPM's anyways. BUT with a supercharged engine you NEVER want to hit the factory rev limiter -- it pulls fuel and not spark causing a massive lean condition that can be fatal to one or more cylinders.

Along with my MSD-6AL box I have a TwEECer and Wideband O2 Meter. I set my EEC-IV rev limiter way up there.. above 7,000 RPM's I think. Then I have my MSD box set at 6k RPM's because it pulls timing which won't hurt anything while under boost.

With the money you can get with the parts you have it would be a toss-up to which one I'd get first: a power pipe or a 7" crank pulley.

With my SC Trim kit setup straight out of the box I didn't see a single difference in boost with my powerpipe. Now that I'm moving more air I'm not sure if it's helping or not. It looks a million times better than what Vortech sends in their kits though.

The best bang for the buck will be a crank pulley. I think I stated above to get an 8-rib crank pulley on the supercharger side. It's up to you if you want to get the 7" or 8" pulley. With the 7" you'll see a couple more pounds of boost. The 8" pulley will show a S or SC Trim whose boss. The 8" pulley will really limit you when it comes to compressor pulleys. The S Trims ceiling is 45k RPM's where as the SC Trim's is 50k RPM's.
 
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