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Please tell me about your personal experience with Promaxx heads. I'll be glad to tell you about my negative experience with my out of the box AFR 185's.

How did you conclude that tuning hasn't been thought about?

My personal experience with the heads, I put a lot of lube in the box, to help them slide into the trash bin

I concluded the tuning part, through experience........was just jabbing ya, it'll be fine with your tuning

bolt the thing together already, and smash the go pedal!
 

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Discussion Starter #22 (Edited)
I built my ECU from bare components and tuned it myself, I know a little about tuning.

Its simple, there is X resolution available for tuning injector pulsewidth. At low rpm low load you need a very small amount of fuel. When you get injectors that are double the size you need you half the resolution you have to tune with. At high rpm that's not an issue, but at low rpm that's the difference between a stable idle and the surging bucking nightmare so many guys fight. The majority of tuners focus on peak numbers and ignore drivability.

Newer injectors do have much better pintles that improve the fuel atomization compared to the old ford green tops but there is zero benefit in going double the size you need. Search for "fuel injectors too big" and you will see dozens of people explaining this.
The Dekas are known for their excellent resolution and high tunability. They are linear and controllable at low pulse widths. The DEKA 80's are even used in ULEV applications. I realize they are large but they give me room to grow with a 76mm turbo capable of 1200hp. If you're familiar with Decipha; he highly recommends these injectors. They didn't cost me any more than a smaller size.
I have a 340lph in tank pump.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
My personal experience with the heads, I put a lot of lube in the box, to help them slide into the trash bin

I concluded the tuning part, through experience........was just jabbing ya, it'll be fine with your tuning

bolt the thing together already, and smash the go pedal!
I'm not tuning this combo myself. I'm hiring the local boost guru to do it. He is the only tuner in this area that actually drives the car on the highway, in parking lots and slow cruise and test hot and cold starts on top of running it on the dyno. I basically drop the car off and only pick it up when he deems it perfect.
 

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Hi guys. I'm building my first turbo car. My intent is to turbo a bone stock '94 GT minus emissions equipment. I'll be installing a larger in take pump, blow thru MAF and 80lb injectors. I've read and heard that I should run head studs and better valve springs in the E7 heads. I've also read that the heads can still lift with studs and that the stock valve springs are fine. The engine has 53k original miles for reference.

I was under the impression that for every 1lb of boost you lose 4lbs of availble spring pressure regardless if the springs where specd accurately for rates and or total spring travel before bind math was used.( Meaning installed correctly)

That being said the typical generic spring on most street heads end up around 125 130# on the seat 280 to 340 open. 95 percent of the time those types of generic springs work fine on a n.a motor cashed out by 5500 5800 once the user introduces boost it tends to extend usable rpm some and immediately taxes the springs past their limit to keep the valves seated.

You will not hurt a thing running a nice 150# 360# open spring installed as close to bind with in reason,.(060 to .100 to bind would be fine left in the spring for a low rpm turbo motor its good insurance,usable stable power,easier on guides,valve tips,and helps keep the tune up in check so you dont queef head gaskets at the first sign of tire spin,etc etc.

As far as blow through systems,By the the time you buy a meter,electronics or an extender of some sort for the maf,having it tuned,etc etc,you could dang near buy a simple holley system,go back to speed density and have A.I on board protecting the mill.

If you have to stick with an a9l and chip tuning,id be looking at a draw through system,just like running a vortech.That set up still works and isn't really that much more difficult to get right.Meter the air inlet,bypass it back to intake inlet,matching sample tube,housing and injector with an adjustable 1 to 1 regulator gets it done.

Studs for sure,stock gaskets with bigger then needed fire ring dia.from Ford and 12lbs of cram? Nah dont think so.
 

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I'm not tuning this combo myself. I'm hiring the local boost guru to do it. He is the only tuner in this area that actually drives the car on the highway, in parking lots and slow cruise and test hot and cold starts on top of running it on the dyno. I basically drop the car off and only pick it up when he deems it perfect.

hope its not my buddy in tucson.........
 

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Discussion Starter #26
I was under the impression that for every 1lb of boost you lose 4lbs of availble spring pressure regardless if the springs where spec accurately for rates and total spring travel before bind math was used.That being said the typical generic spring on most strert heads end up around 125 130# on the seat 280 to 340 open.95 percent of the time those types of generic springs work fine on a n.a motor cashed out by 5500 5800.Once the user introduces boost it tends to extend usable rpm some and immediately taxes the springs past their limit to keep the valves seated.You will not hurt a thing running a nice 150# 360# open spring installed as close to bind with in reason,.060 to .100 to bind would be fine left in the spring for a low rpm turbo motor.Good insurance,more stable power,easier on guides,valve tips,keeping tune up in check so you dont queef head gaskets at the first sign of tire spin,etc etc.

As far as blow through systems,By the the time you buy a meter,electronics or an extender of some sort for the maf,having it tuned,etc etc,you coule dang near buy a simple holley system,go back ro speed density and have A.I on board protecting the mill.

If you have to stick with an a9l and chip tuning,id be looking at a draw through system,just like running a vortech.That set up still works and isnt really that much more difficult to get right.Meter the air inlet,bypass it back to intake inlet,maching sample tube,house and injector,with an adjustable 1 to 1 regulator gets it done.

Studs for sure,stock gaskets with bigger then needed fire ring dia.from Ford and 12lbs of cram? Nah dont think so.
I have $200 into a nice PMAS blow thru MAF. The stock '94 ECU will do the deed just fine. I'll pay around $400 or less for a proper and safe tune. I looked into the Terminator X system but it's not cut and dry like some think. For instance; you'll have to come up with your own timing table. This Holley setup doesn't do it for you. There is still tuning to be done by the end user no matter what Holley claims. One can hop on the Holley forum and read the many questions users have in regards to their supposed self tuning setup. What's really reassuring is when the dealer can't answer my questions and has to email the rep who refers me to the Holley forum for answers. No thanks. I'll rely on the same ECU that has gotten cars into the 8's. Don't get me wrong; the capabilities of the Terminator X are endless.
Guys are running 12psi and more with their On 3 kits on bone stock engines. Will the gaskets let go eventually? Who knows. I'm going to let the tuner do his magic and rely on him for how much is enough.
 

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Discussion Starter #27

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If you TwinTurbo a stock bottom end you better Kiss that Puppy goodbye. Also u r gonna need bigger injectors, a return fuel system I don’t think you understand what you’re up against
 

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Discussion Starter #29
If you TwinTurbo a stock bottom end you better Kiss that Puppy goodbye. Also u r gonna need bigger injectors, a return fuel system I don’t think you understand what you’re up against
I think you need to go back to my original post and read the whole thread. Twin turbo??? Did you not read about the injectors I'm using?
 

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Hi guys. I'm building my first turbo car. My intent is to turbo a bone stock '94 GT minus emissions equipment. I'll be installing a larger in take pump, blow thru MAF and 80lb injectors. I've read and heard that I should run head studs and better valve springs in the E7 heads. I've also read that the heads can still lift with studs and that the stock valve springs are fine. The engine has 53k original miles for reference.
I have done the on3 on an 86 fox , also an HP setup on a 94 cobra. so i have some exposure to what you are doing. you will need 60lb inj to make max power, use Siemens . you will need a lot of pump, 340 L min and you may still run out, I use twin 255s, then its -8/-6 lines and new rails. stock cam works well, standard throttle bodys with egr gone works well. Head studs,,I use them, what I found was right when you think the timing is right I would blow the head gaskets,,,so start with timing WAY reduced , like 15degree, get fueling rich under load. start there. Get a GOOD wide band or you will blow it up leaving the driveway. I know
OHH, and then find all the rest of the weak parts, axles ,trans, driveshaft , rear suspension bushings, ect. LOL
I would really recommend an aftermarket ECU, the old ford stuff is obsolete/unreliable and hard to find. remember they only built the ECUs for the 94-95 then went obd2 in 96 and thats another thing.
 

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I have $200 into a nice PMAS blow thru MAF. The stock '94 ECU will do the deed just fine. I'll pay around $400 or less for a proper and safe tune. I looked into the Terminator X system but it's not cut and dry like some think. For instance; you'll have to come up with your own timing table. This Holley setup doesn't do it for you. There is still tuning to be done by the end user no matter what Holley claims. One can hop on the Holley forum and read the many questions users have in regards to their supposed self tuning setup. What's really reassuring is when the dealer can't answer my questions and has to email the rep who refers me to the Holley forum for answers. No thanks. I'll rely on the same ECU that has gotten cars into the 8's. Don't get me wrong; the capabilities of the Terminator X are endless.
Guys are running 12psi and more with their On 3 kits on bone stock engines. Will the gaskets let go eventually? Who knows. I'm going to let the tuner do his magic and rely on him for how much is enough.
Matt bell works magic with holley,my go to guy,set and forget.
 

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Discussion Starter #32

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Discussion Starter #34
MAGIC and ‘self learning’

cant’d get better than that
I did some reading about the Terminator X kit. I might as well buy a QuarterHorse and WB and tune it myself. "Self learning" is very deceptive marketing. But hey...you get a nice new harness. 👍
 

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See no reason to have to do head studs for this setup. Good ARP bolts and Fel Pro 9333 pt1 gaskets is plenty for a stock engine. 80 lbs injectors can be a little of a pain to tune down low...60's do better IMO and will support way more than you'll make with a stock engine. Again...just IMO.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
See no reason to have to do head studs for this setup. Good ARP bolts and Fel Pro 9333 pt1 gaskets is plenty for a stock engine. 80 lbs injectors can be a little of a pain to tune down low...60's do better IMO and will support way more than you'll make with a stock engine. Again...just IMO.
Why ARP bolts instead of studs? Just curious.
 

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Why ARP bolts instead of studs? Just curious.
Just don't see the need when $47 ARP bolts (vs $100 studs)and cheap Fel Pro 9333 pt1 gaskets will hold more than the block will.

Now if it were a Dart/A4/R302 block and were going to run a ton of boost sure..
ARP studs and MLS/Cometic gaskets.

Like anything,opinions will vary.
 

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Discussion Starter #38
Just don't see the need when $47 ARP bolts (vs $100 studs)and cheap Fel Pro 9333 pt1 gaskets will hold more than the block will.

Now if it were a Dart/A4/R302 block and were going to run a ton of boost sure..
ARP studs and MLS/Cometic gaskets.

Like anything,opinions will vary.
Gotcha. I didn't realize there was such a price difference.
 

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I did some reading about the Terminator X kit. I might as well buy a QuarterHorse and WB and tune it myself. "Self learning" is very deceptive marketing. But hey...you get a nice new harness. 👍
I use the Quarterhorse,,,,,I guess you either cant read or I wasted my time trying to help you...Go aftermarket on the ECU, the OLD FORD stuff is obsolete , and unreliable ...I'm done
 

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Discussion Starter #40
I use the Quarterhorse,,,,,I guess you either cant read or I wasted my time trying to help you...Go aftermarket on the ECU, the OLD FORD stuff is obsolete , and unreliable ...I'm done
I can read just fine. That doesn't mean that I can't have an opinion. I did my homework and the Holley unit isn't for me.

You might want to alert tuners across the world that the older Mustang ECU is obsolete and unreliable. Let's not forget cars running in the 8's using the factory ECU.
 
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