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Discussion Starter #1
I'm looking to do a new build for a lightweight Fox. I'm aiming for 400rwhp. I've searched and their are many threads supporting one or the other. The block will be a factory piece so I'm looking for the safest build. Do I stress the block with a hot 347 or turbo a HCI 302? Streetability seems to suffer with a 400rwhp 347. I would think a turbo car with stockish cam would be easier on the block. Here's the kicker. I'm limited to 91 octane pump gas and the engine will be tested by the 110* plus days in Phoenix. I realize a Dart block will cure any worries but I'm looking to both keep the car light and I already have a stock machined block. I'm leaning towards an old school build for the heck of it. Ideas?
 

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Six to one. Half dozen to the other. On a stock block either path makes the block the liability at that power level. Personally I'd do the cheap cheap cheap "stock" bottom end with a turbo. If it fails you can swap the turbo setup to a better or just new block and be back on the road in short order. Pop the stroker and the crank might be ruined and the heads and maybe the rods/pistons and etc....

I suspect the trubo might be able to get done for the same, maybe less, money as the stroker if you are crafty. And thrifty.

Either will be fun. Turbo will be all torque all the time (more or less).
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Six to one. Half dozen to the other. On a stock block either path makes the block the liability at that power level. Personally I'd do the cheap cheap cheap "stock" bottom end with a turbo. If it fails you can swap the turbo setup to a better or just new block and be back on the road in short order. Pop the stroker and the crank might be ruined and the heads and maybe the rods/pistons and etc....

I suspect the trubo might be able to get done for the same, maybe less, money as the stroker if you are crafty. And thrifty.

Either will be fun. Turbo will be all torque all the time (more or less).
I knew I could count on you for a turbo vote! Lol. Your thinking is along the same lines as mine but I'm open to all suggestions.
 

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Do a single turbo on the stock short block. Do not overbore it, just gap the rings.. Run the stock cam and keep it to 10psi. It will easily rip 400 to the wheels.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Do a single turbo on the stock short block. Do not overbore it, just gap the rings.. Run the stock cam and keep it to 10psi. It will easily rip 400 to the wheels.
I can do that. I also have access to a C4 or a PG. There's a couple of cheap turbo kits out there, but I haven't a clue what to run for intake, TB, Injectors and MAF.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
If you go turbo, throw an alcohol injection system on there. Especially with 91 octane and Arizona heat.
That is definitely a concern. Thanks.
 

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Nah, you don't need all that. Just run less timing.. It's all in the tune,

Really, you could just put a Turbo on the stock Long Block and meet your goals. It would be way cheaper...

Thanks! Per their website:

"Injectors and Fuel System Are Not included. This Kit Is For Hardware ONLY. You Will Need to Upgrade The Fuel System and Tune the Engine."
 

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Nah, you don't need all that. Just run less timing.. It's all in the tune,

Really, you could just put a Turbo on the stock Long Block and meet your goals. It would be way cheaper...

It’s not necessary, but good insurance especially in a hot environment. I think I pieced a simple on/off system together for ~$200.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
It’s not necessary, but good insurance especially in a hot environment. I think I pieced a simple on/off system together for ~$200.
Could you elaborate? Thanks!
 

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I vote turbo and for that little amount of power if you put a small one on it it will spool like dynamite.

ks
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I vote turbo and for that little amount of power if you put a small one on it it will spool like dynamite.

ks
Is the turbo in the CX kit considered small; Kevin?
 

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Yeah man, you need an aftermarket EFI but it's way worth it. It's a little more than bolting on a turbo kit. You need the supporting parts, but the system will grow with you. A simple $40 Boost Solenoid will allow you to dial in any level of boost you want just by entering the number.

If you're running the stock block, it really makes sense to just run the whole long block unless you want to add a different intake and throttle body. That way if you blow it up, you didn't lose any money on destroyed parts. Save that money for your dart block engine. It stinks to put money and effoft into the stock shortblock with nice HCI just to blow it up. I've been there. See my avatar picture..

There are plenty of people on youtube making great power with a turbo and stock motor.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Yeah man, you need an aftermarket EFI but it's way worth it. It's a little more than bolting on a turbo kit. You need the supporting parts, but the system will grow with you. A simple $40 Boost Solenoid will allow you to dial in any level of boost you want just by entering the number.

If you're running the stock block, it really makes sense to just run the whole long block unless you want to add a different intake and throttle body. That way if you blow it up, you didn't lose any money on destroyed parts. Save that money for your dart block engine. It stinks to put money and effoft into the stock shortblock with nice HCI just to blow it up. I've been there. See my avatar picture..

There are plenty of people on youtube making great power with a turbo and stock motor.
Why won't the factory EFI/PCM work? It's fully tuneable and can be programmed to run larger injectors.
 

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Is the turbo in the CX kit considered small; Kevin?
Small is relative but a few of those kits have a 70mm which would be the maximum size I would go for 400hp. If it was my car I would go smaller yet keeping in mind that a smaller unit will spool insanely fast but not produce a lot of HP which people tend to get caught up with.

If the turbo is "capable" of making 600HP then it's too big and will be lazy when only wanting 400hp.

ks
 

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It's a dinosaur.. It can't do half the things a modern efi can do.

You can get a PIMPXS which is a megasquirt 3 that will plug into the stock harness. You will only need to make a few extra connections for what you choose to run, like maybe a fuel pressure gauge or a wheel sensor for traction control..

Plus it can datalog which is huge. But it's your money.

Here's a log I did yesterday. Look to the right of the pic. It tells what the cursor line in the middle is. I made 7.2 psi at 4173 rpms at 89.5mph. That's about 375hp calculating the fuel consumption with the 38.2 duty cycle, which is injector pulse.



1053926
 

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For your goals you do not need a different ecu. The stock one will do plenty. I ran a stock ecu at 500 rwhp on a stock bottom end for years. Get the turbo kit you want get a maf matched to 42 or 60lb injectors upgrade the fuel pump to at least a 255 and get a tune or lock the timing at 18*.. Plenty of people have ran that exact setup and never had issues
 

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Discussion Starter #20
It's a dinosaur.. It can't do half the things a modern efi can do.

You can get a PIMPXS which is a megasquirt 3 that will plug into the stock harness. You will only need to make a few extra connections for what you choose to run, like maybe a fuel pressure gauge or a wheel sensor for traction control..

Plus it can datalog which is huge. But it's your money.

Here's a log I did yesterday. Look to the right of the pic. It tells what the cursor line in the middle is. I made 7.2 psi at 4173 rpms at 89.5mph. That's about 375hp calculating the fuel consumption with the 38.2 duty cycle, which is injector pulse.



View attachment 1053926
I've tuned with Quarter Horse and Binary Editor in the past.
 
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