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Hi, I have an 89 Mustang GT with about 104,000 miles on it. I've owned it since about 66,000 miles on it and I have never touched my suspension. I can tell that its getting pretty bad. My car dives really hard on braking and lifts up on acceleration, plus alot of body roll. I was thinking of going with some FMS C springs and Tokico non adjustable shocks and struts. I figure with this setup, it will be ALOT better than now, it will lower the car some, plus it's not too much of a burden on my wallet. I was wondering if I should get some caster camber plates or anything else....quad shocks? new bushings? etc? I'd like to have a little bit lowered, good handling car, but I can't spend a fortune on suspension either. I'm just looking for some opinions that would give me the best setup. Thanks...
 

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Well first and foremost the biggest difference will be replacing the struts and shocks. If you want to do it cheap, don't mess with the springs, just install some KYB's all around. Cheap effective stock replacement but no good when you get to higher spring rates.

C springs are cheap but I think you'll find they lower the front too much and you'll most likelly end up having to cut the rears to get the ride height correct anyway. So personally i recommend cutting the stock rear springs which will be more comfortable when you're done, and getting some better-than-C fronts. Strut and shock choice will depend on budget and spring rate but if you keep the rates mild you'll be OK with the Tokico non-adjustables.

The deal of the century is on right now though, it's the Bullitt suspension package for some ungodly low price like $300 or $350. These will be C-ish front rates but not so darn low, with struts and shocks valved to match the springs. You really can't beat that deal for cost effectiveness. I think it's Gene Evans ford that's selling them cheap, but do a search and you'll dig up all the info.

C/C plates are preferred if for no other reason than that they control the location of the top of the strut, which means your caster and camber (and toe, as a result) are not changing all the time as you drive down the road. If you go as low as the C's I can practically guarantee you'll need them.
 

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MFE has a good point about the Bullitt suspension package. It is the deal of the century, however In my honest opinion he is dead wrong about cutting the stock springs to get a comfortable ride. It actually makes me wonder how he is the three time local autoX champion when he goes aroung spreading that info. Sorry man, cutting springs is wrong.

Go with the Bullitt package and you wont be dissapointed.
 

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Originally posted by prez1967 It actually makes me wonder how he is the three time local autoX champion when he goes aroung spreading that info. Sorry man, cutting springs is wrong.
Oh goody! Another chance to blow the lid off yet another Internet Gangbang Universal Truth! :blam:

But you first, since you pulled the gloves off...why is cutting springs The End Of The World? And I mean PROOF, not Internet Gangbang Theory. I'm not talking Ricer-style, land-it-on-the-bumpstops cutting, I'm talking a mild drop in a position that does not call for as heavy a rate as the aftermarket supplies, and I'm talking about cutting the top, not the part that rides on the LCA. I'm looking forward to making a mockery of everything you have to say about why it's so wrong, because you won't be able to spout anything but Internet Hearsay, but let's hear it anyway Oh Lofty One.:hammer:
 

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prez1967 said:
however In my honest opinion he is dead wrong about cutting the stock springs to get a comfortable ride. It actually makes me wonder how he is the three time local autoX champion when he goes aroung spreading that info. Sorry man, cutting springs is wrong.
Hmmm....I cut my stock rear springs this weekend and brought my car down about 1/2-3/4" to level out the ride height and my car rides absolutely no different then before I had cut those darn springs. All I wanted was to bring the rear down a little bit to level everything out and I got exacetly what I wanted.

I think I just heard a toilet flush..... ;)

Anyways...Scott, the Bullit package does look like a great deal seeing as how you'll get the springs with the shocks that are tuned for them. That should help your handling problems quite a bit. You'll also want to check out your stock rubber bushings and see what shape they are in. Worn bushings can cause very sloppy handling and will change your alignment characteristics in realtime as your going down the road. If you have the tools and the time, you might want to think about picking up a set of newer bushings for those control arms, or, buying a new/used set online. I had great luck with the Steeda Del-Lum front control arm bushings on my coupe. They go right in the stock front control arm but the install can be painful without the right tools.

Hope that helps!!!
 

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MFE,

What do you do for a living?
 

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I'm a media planning director in advertising. The chicks are better looking than they are in engineering :D

BTW, the reason I came unleashed is there's a difference between saying "I don't believe that" or "I've always heard different" or whatever, and saying I can't chew gum and wipe my ass at the same time because I dared to contradict the stories of countless retards who read something and then pass it on as gospel without providing a moment's thought about it.

FWIW, I won my first autocross championship with a stock suspension and KYB's, in the Street Tire class our club ran, with my times indexed based on the fact that it fit the E Street Prepared rules. Tough index as street tires go.

I won the second one in the Street Modified class, running "open" against people running race tires in cars like supercharged Integras, while using B springs and KYB's and :eek: oh my god! Cut rear springs! And still on street tires.

I won the third one in the Street Modified class against an even bigger group of drivers, this time with most of my current suspension and :eek: oh my god! still on those cut rear springs! And still on street tires...except now I was also using Drag Radials, again, against the advice of People Who Don't Know Better But Like To Make Dire Predictions Based On What They've Read On The Internet.

I'm currently leading the Street Modified class so far this year with :eek: oh my god! Cut down STOCK rear springs! I did that so I could soften the rear a little bit for more comfort and better bite out of corners. Mission accomplished. I've won three events across two clubs against some pretty decent competition and the car is nicer to drive on the street.

But now, NOW, I've got to start losing sleep again because I've committed such a crime against nature by cutting my own rear springs :p
 

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MFE said:


Oh goody! Another chance to blow the lid off yet another Internet Gangbang Universal Truth! :blam:

But you first, since you pulled the gloves off...why is cutting springs The End Of The World? And I mean PROOF, not Internet Gangbang Theory. I'm not talking Ricer-style, land-it-on-the-bumpstops cutting, I'm talking a mild drop in a position that does not call for as heavy a rate as the aftermarket supplies, and I'm talking about cutting the top, not the part that rides on the LCA. I'm looking forward to making a mockery of everything you have to say about why it's so wrong, because you won't be able to spout anything but Internet Hearsay, but let's hear it anyway Oh Lofty One.:hammer:
Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics..... even if you win, your still retarded :)

I didn't mean to flame here man... dont look for excuses to make fun forums dull.
 

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prez1967 said:

Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics..... even if you win, your still retarded :)
That's really cool of you to say that............

Read this....it's an excerpt from my web page...

And finally, the one person who has had the most impact on my life, my older brother John. You see, my older brother John was born with Down Syndrome, but that never stopped him from doing anything that he enjoyed doing. He overcame obstacles and boundries that most people would never even challenge. No matter what happened, good, bad, or otherwise, John always had a smile on his face. You couldn't get him down. He taught me how to be strong and how to persevere, no matter what lay in my path. He was one of the greatest people you could ever meet. Unfortunately, John passed away on July 25, 1995, the day after my dad took us to see our first drag race at New England Dragway. This car is dedicated to his memory and to his love of life.

For saving my life and for helping show me the way, I owe you a big High-Five. Thanks Johnnie.

Great choice of words chief. You're a real winner. :mad:
 

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MFE,

I like your style..

Later,

Ron
 

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Anyone happen to know the spring rates and drop on the Bullit package?

MFE-
I, for one, happen to like the C-springs. They are rated 760 constant on the front and 200 variable rate on rear, and drop the front about 1", rear about 3/4". They are a big improvement over the stock Cobra setup for everyday driving chores. I'm curious why you don't like them- don't you use the GW LCAs?
 

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Those aren't the C springs I'm familiar with, which advertise a 1.5 inch drop with a suppsed 650 rate in front and a variable 200 to 230 or 300, depending on who you believe. I had B's, which supposedly are 200-300 and which are largely believed to be the same as the C rears. :confused: The ones I'm talking about are pretty well known for a much bigger drop than advertised in front, often with barely any drop in the rear.

Anyway my problem with them is the fact that they too often lower the car a lot more than 1.5 inches in front, yet doesn't seem to provide enough rate to control the bad geometry that results from the drop plus the body roll.

Arguably better than the B's but not as good as other possibilities is all. Now maybe I've got my facts all wrong about the spring rates but I've seen a lot of the "wow I didn't know it was gonna be THAT low" in person.
 

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MFE- How much do you cut off the stock rears? I was thinking about doing that but wasnt sure if I should cut 1 coil or 1 1/2? Thanks.
Jonathan
 

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I cut a surprising amount out of them. In my case pretty much the entire progressive part of the spring and it's STILL softer than the B rears I had. More than 1.5 coils but you have to play it by ear because it depends on your car and your LCA's. I have a coupe (light in back) with GW LCA's which tend to raise the rear a little bit. So your setup will likely require something different. Luckily theyr'e pretty easy to remove and reinstall so it's no big deal doing it twice or even 3 times to get it right.
 

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MFE,
You got me wondering and I looked up the specs for the Ford C springs. You were correct as usual, at least for part of it. C front springs are rated at 650 linear, not ~750 like I thought; the rears are 200-230 variables. The drop is reported different on Fox bodies and SN-95s (1.125" front and .75" rear on 95). I havn't seen a lot of difference in height in my 95 Cobra after the install, but the springs have not yet had a chance to settle and I changed tires/wheels and installed CC plates and new struts at the same time, so the comparison may not be completely valid.

I plan to install GW LCAs shortly, and I'm curious if the heavier rear spring will be a problem or not- GW recommends light rear springs, abt 160. The stock Cobra rear setup uses a 160 lb spring, but It has bottomed out a number of times in the past so believe a little stiffer spring is needed, particularly if the car is lowered. I'm just not sure yet if 200 will be too much.
 

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I doubt the spring is too heavy, BUT, I'm almost positive the GW arms are going to raise the back of your car a bit. The easy way to correct for that is to cut the spring. Then you cut out the lightest part and you end up with a spring that may very well be too much.

One thing that makes a big difference in whether or not it bottoms is your shocks, so if they're old or weak I'd upgrade the shocks. If you still have the stock rear springs, hang onto them until after you do the install. Drive the car with the C rears for a while and see how you like it, but if you were already bottoming you may find the shocks you have don't like the new springs. Anyway see if you like it and if you want something softer you have the stockers to work with.

The weird thing is, you don't WANT a heavy spring in the back of these cars unless you've really freed up the suspension with a torque arm or something. But that's what the aftermarket gives us. A softer spring will allow you to plant the power better and earlier coming out of corners, ride a LOT better, with no real downside in the handling department.
 
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