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Discussion Starter #1
I was wondering it if it would be possible to build a 302 that puts out around 350 rwhp and still pass dyno smog? If not, what is the highest you have seen from a 302 and still pass smog? I am making 281rwhp/317 ft-lbs now with my mild combo, and it passes easily.

I was thinking the RPM II intake (when its available), AFR 185 heads, and a custom cam. I was thinking a cam with somewhat short durration, quick opening lobes, and high lift. I am assuming long tube headers would be necessary, but how much better would they be over FMS 1 5/8 unequal shorties? With the 1" engine setback I am going to have to massage the firewall to fit long tubes.

Any recommendations you can make would be appreciated.

I am hoping just to be able to do a rering/bearing to my old 302, maybe new pistons if they are needed. I don't really want to replace the entire rotating assembly. If I were to go that far I would just build a 331/347 (which I may have to do anyway it seems).

Thanks,
Eric
 

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Take a 302 shortblock. Any aftermarket heads/cam/intake.

At the worst: 280-300 rwhp

At the best: 300-325 rwhp

3 ways to make power:

1. Cubic inches (fuel mileage concerns)
2. Compression (just have 91 octane around here..)
3. RPM (accelerated wear/longetivity issues)


"350 rwhp and still pass dyno smog"

I've never seen it done before.

Stroker motor is your best bet. ~$1000
 

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Your best bet would be to talk to Anderson Ford Motorsport located in western Illinois. They make these combo's all of the time. Actually theres a guy on here that lives out there and has one of their combo's making over 370 NA! rwhp It can be done and these guys know how to do it and still pass the sniffer. :)



www.andersonfordmotorsport.com
 

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Can't be done. You can't make power like that with 302" with cats etc. If you're willing to swap exhaust when smog time comes then yes you can.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I have no problems with not running cats, I'm not running them now. ;) I just swap the stock cats on every 2 years for smog.

I just wonder if it can be done on shorty headers. I don't know that long tubes with cats would pass. Maybe the 1 3/4 shorties that Ba$$ani makes.
 

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red89notch said:
Cant be done huh? www.andersonfordmotorsport.com Then youll see it can be done. I agree about the cat part though. Thats not a big deal though. Just keep the stock H pipe and swap when its time.
And where on their website should I look. They can make the power but not SMOGABLE! I know their cams, and even their small ones are too exhaust bias and have too much overlap. Anderson setups are notorious for being very soft on the bottom end and scream up top. Look at the dyno sheets on the site. Several of them can't even make 300 ft lbs until 4000-4500 RPM.
 

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The easiest and surest way would be to go the 347 route, then even a mild 228/232 cam like the AFM N-61 will get you there, even with the shorties. Plus the extra 40 ft*lb of torque will be great. Run the Holley matched to the AFR185's or TEA TFS-TW185's and you'll probably make around 375-385 rwhp with the 347, probably around 325-335 rwhp with the 302 (maybe 340ish with more compression). The N-61 might not pass with the 302, but I've seen people pass with Fcams with 226 duration. I pass with the AFM B-25, 218/226, 112, .55/.55 with 1.72's no problem. I have BBK jethot 1 5/8" longtubes and the matching BBK shorty cat H-pipe.

By the way, here are some hard dyno numbers for you. Going from NICE JBA 1 5/8" shorties and a Motorsport 2 1/4" offroad to the BBK longtube/cat setup added THIRTY ft*lb (30 ft*lb) at 2000 rpm with an extra 8 rwhp at peak, with gains all across the rpm band. I've seen similar dyno pulls from others. The longtube setup has a deeper tone, with LESS drone at 1800-2000 rpm. I also picked up a real life 1 mpg after I switched to the lontube setup ... with cats. Go figure. Don't let people tell you that you can't make the 350 rwhp with cats. They would be surprised how little they would lose if they switched.

MGerman,

Speaking of AFM N-61, how is the driveability of that cam? How far down can you drop the rpms before it kicks into pogo mode. With my B-25, I can get down to 1700 rpm. Can you pass emmissions with your setup. Do you run cats? Thanks, and awesome setup, by the way.
 

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Re: 350 rwhp and pass emissions

mgerman93 said:
It can be done. Mark Arnold's 93 cobra did it through the cats. The complete combo is at www.the-arnolds.net/Cobra/ or go to www.andersonfordmotorsport.com under naturally aspirated cars and click on his name.
What state did he pass in? In CA we have the toughest of emmissions standards. I find it amazing he passed in whatever state he lives in. But like I said above, without an exhaust swap you're not passing in California. The sniffer is one thing, but the visual is always the toughest part.
 

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N61

Standard Missle Mustang, The N61 has really nice driveability down to 2200rpm with .410 gears. The idle is lumpy and it pulls
10 inches of vaccuum at approx 800rpm. I seriously doubt it would pass emissions. I don't run any smog equipment. I used to run the old B2 in my last NA 306 and it passed emissions with ease. That cam was aimed at a blower setup, but it also worked very well NA. I made 305rwhp and 331rwtq with it using box stock X heads (64cc) and cobra intake. That setup was good for
12.20s @ 110 with a 1.57 sixty foot.

ACames, Marc is from St. Peters, Missouri so I'm sure that's where he passed. His mail is at the links I posted if you want specifics. I'm sure CA is the toughest emissions state to pass, but that is not what whitelx was asking.
 

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Re: N61

mgerman93 said:


ACames, Marc is from St. Peters, Missouri so I'm sure that's where he passed. His mail is at the links I posted if you want specifics. I'm sure CA is the toughest emissions state to pass, but that is not what whitelx was asking.
What part of Upland, CA, is whitelx not asking about again??
 

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Re: Re: N61

93-ex-chp said:
What part of Upland, CA, is whitelx not asking about again??
That's what I was thinkin:confused: Part of emissions is visual, so you gotta pass that too. Don't get me wrong, I think it's still impressive he passed a sniffer from his state.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Re: Re: Re: N61

ACames said:
That's what I was thinkin:confused: Part of emissions is visual, so you gotta pass that too. Don't get me wrong, I think it's still impressive he passed a sniffer from his state.
Does your setup pass smog? What changes do you have to make? I am assuming headers and H-pipe.

I know the AFR 185s are now CA smog legal, as are the Performer RPM II and the Holley Systemax II intakes. My questions regard the cam mostly, i think that is where the power lies and the ability to pass emissions.

I do happen to have an EO# plate that came off an old set of JBA headers ;)
 

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MGerman,

Thanks for the info on the N-61. May I ask what heads and compression you are running and what you have done to the Cobra intake. I have yet to see a 302/306 make those type of numbers with Cobra. Awesome torque.

WhiteLX,

Sorry for "hyjacking" this thread for my own purposes.

By the way, I have heard that detaching, but not removing, injector harness #5 might help pass emmissions as well :)

I like the JBA plate idea. Clever!

It seems to me that if you pass the sniffer, then it shouldn't matter what parts are in there. VA is tuff, but not as tuff as CA.
I almost moved to San Jose to work for Lockheed on the Trident missile program, but I had family issues to deal with, and never made the switch. I loved the weather and local attractions, but man the car laws are horrible.

Good luck.
 

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Re: Re: Re: Re: N61

WhiteLX said:
Does your setup pass smog? What changes do you have to make? I am assuming headers and H-pipe.

I know the AFR 185s are now CA smog legal, as are the Performer RPM II and the Holley Systemax II intakes. My questions regard the cam mostly, i think that is where the power lies and the ability to pass emissions.

I do happen to have an EO# plate that came off an old set of JBA headers ;)
No my setup isn't legal. At minimum I'd be looking at a exhaust swap. People have no idea how hard your avg. smog tech is on the visual. Everyone is so scared of getting fined. The adjustable regulator will get attention, as will the 30 lb injectors. I got hassled over BBK shorty headers one time. Guy almost wouldn't pass me:mad: The stamp wasn't on the header tube. People who don't live here, have no idea. You almost have to know a smog tech to overlook the little stuff. Even if you have cats, they need an EO #.
 
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