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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know this has been gone over many times but I just need a quick answer. I just got my engine back from machine shop. Had to be balanced as mystery stroker kit was a ripoff. Too far to turn back now. Had roller rocker w pedestal mount on it before rebalancing and after install had exhaust leak from carb. Installed shims during assembly from comp( thick shims). On start up it made hellacious noise from valve covers. Pretty sure I need to use thin shims and noise is from pushrod rocker arm excessive clearance but have not verified. Any body run into this before? I'm new to forum and new to performance motors so any help would really be appreciated.
 

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What valve covers are you using? Usually have to at least remove the baffles from the stock 5.0 covers for roller rocker clearance.
 

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So you have CORRECT push rod length? What this means is you used a length checker and/or got the roller centered and didnt need to use a length checker?

Second, have you pulled a valve cover to be sure the rollers are not hitting the valve cover oil baffle? If you havent check this.

Lets start here and work our way through.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
problem solved

pulled valve covers and installed thin shims today. noise is gone. I'm using stock 5.0 ho pushrods, have not checked length. valve covers have no baffles just a big hole for a breather. now that noise is gone moving on to intake gaskets leaking coolant. urggg. I think next motor will have solid roller with studs for proper adjustment, the shim seams kind of lame and frustrating.
 

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the shim is employed to raise the rocker so that the wear path is better centered...but even if the wear path is better, the pushrod length itself could still be wrong, or at least better optomised.
some thought is pointing towards the correct amount of lifter plunger preload in a hydraulic roller setup system.
it is a combination of the use of a shim and the pushrod length...
..... not just one or the other, but rather oftentimes BOTH as a corrective measure.



the need or use of a shim is obtained / determined by LOOKING AT THE ROLLER TIPS WEAR PATH ON THE VALVE STEM TIP....
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
good info

ok so originally the use of shims was suggested by the guy at the local performance shop I bought the rockers from, to eliminate the exhaust leak you coul hear coming from carb after install. guy seams so far to not be helpful or forthcoming. do you suggest any particular marking paint or grease to check roller tip? also if I'm using hydraulic lifters do I need a solid to check this acurately, doesn't the lifter bleed down and won't that affect my results.
I haven't really checked anything just bought a set of rockers and had problems. I bought the rockers becuase after assembly only parts still retained from old motor were lifters,rockers, and pushrods. had a ticking noise while driving so I threw in new lifters and figured I'd upgrade the rockers. Just didn't know what I was gettin into.
 

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rockers are all different.. there is much more to overall dimensioning than just the rocker ratio.....
every maker ,..makes them different.

this is why each and every assembly ( engine) has to be checked for rocker run wear path compatibility to the valve tip.


you should make a pair of lifters into a solid,...so that the plunger inside does not move up and down..no matter or need for oil or not. ( hand rotation with a wrench is not going to support any oil pressure.
only issue is being able to remove lifters.. access is only by removal of the intake manifold.

there are quite a few post topics that have spoken of all the details of how and what to do to determine proper pushrod length.

..........ASK....


.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks Kato. Obviously slapping it together wasn't such a good idea. I looked through several old posts and found alot of good info. I'll put batteries in the digital caliper tommorrow. If you don't mind still helping let give you real info. Bottom end. Machinist reground stock 302 crank to 3.250.
Used escort 1.6 rods with kb 327 chevy .030 hyper. Fcam, gt40 yheads. Cam has not been degreed. Guy at aforementioned performance shop told me it was pointless with hydraulic lifters. engine is already assembled with timing marks on gears aligned. When i take the lifter apart do I need to use filler to take place of spring and how do I ensure correct height of plunger with no spring? When checking pattern on valve tip, looking for even across top and not one side or other or right in center top to bottom or both. Thanks for your help. I take mercedes apart at dealer all day and never have had to get into this before. Seams I've got alot to learn.
 

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is that the 4.920 length conn. rod....???

is it the 1.88 diameter...??

usual is to do it with a 20 under insert bearing..


IT is NOT POINTLESS to degree a hydraulic lifter camshaft........!!!!!!!

the stock keyslots can be as much as 4 degrees off....and depending on the cam itself, the pin can be off... again...

the best mannor to make an existing hydraulic roller lifter ( stock original type) into a solid is by removing the circlip ring wire and then poping out the internals. actually the spring itself insid should then be replaced with a stack of thin washers or even toothpicks, or wood dowel ...etc... the proper height is obtained when the "stack of washers" or whatever is as much as can be inside when the pushrod seat AND the lockring wire is able to be put back in the groove that it originally cam out of....

many people just get a junk / used lifters from the boneyard / etc / or save a couple from a previous buildup,.....and "convert" a pair.

next thing to get is a pair of adjustable pushrods...about 28 dollars from a number of makers....




you "mark" the tip of valve with "magic marker". ............RED is preferred....
 

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some of the original ford stock cast iron cranks would crack at the front rod throw in thru the oil feed hole or the lightening hole...when reduced to the 1.888 diameter and offset for a 3.250 stroke.
was common MISTEAK done by many in the "old days".....
it was actually more cost and trouble than what is available today to just call in an order for a forged or cast stroker...AND IT IS MADE RIGHT...!!!

I HOPE that it all works out for you on the CRANK -CRANK....
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
oh the frustration

This is why I call it mystery motor. I now know I got ripped off on a cheap stroker kit. Unsure of any dimesions just assembled with some plastigage. Used stock size rod bearings and 10 under main. Took an old lifter apart yesterday, but haven't had time to do anything yet. I'm putting rod bearings and balance shaft in a benz v6 right now and doing roadside service at night.
Pulling intake on sunday hopefully after getting car to stop(brakeline worn through on rear end). I'll check pushrod length then. For now cam will have to stay where it is. This is my daily driver and I have to give the Ml 320 back on monday. Should I pull the plugs when checking rocker to valve stem so it will spin easier, seams like a good idea. Also where should I put the cam when degreeing? I plan on doing some drag racing once a month and don't mind loosing bottom end torque. I have a three key crank sprocket but do not have adjustable cam sprocket.
 

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to really know "where" the cam is...you have to verify with a degree wheel and dial indicator and a speck sheet on the specific cam.
just "lining upthe dots" is no guarantee of anything... quite often the cam itself or the drive pin or keyslot or even the slots in the sprockets are OFF and not perfect...
......oftentimes (80-90 percent of the time).....the cam is off as much as 4 degrees...once in a while the combination of retarded keyslots ..combined with an advanced cam pin and lifter bores that are not exact, can make the cam 6 degrees off... advanced or retarded, you take your LOTTO guess-pick.... I have installed hundreds myself and seen hundreds more by others that I could not believe were as far off as they were...
have had many that had to have, with the parts available, had to have key on the plus 6 or 8 ...OR on the minus 6 or 8 just to get the actual lifter to be CLOSE to where the spec sheet reccomends....

just "liningupthedots" is still just guessing...

......it sounds as though you are smart enough to understand....
......along with smart enough to spend 100 bucks to get a simple degree wheel and dial indicator to do this important check....

original post topic was concerning roller rockers and setup/wear on the tips of valves.......

accuracy of cam timing does not have any effect on the rocker geometry or the pushrod length,...but it DOES have a giant influence on the resultant available piston to valve clearance because an advanced cam will gain clearance on one valve but will loose clearance on the other valve..... and a retarded cam will do the same but for the opposite valve......


since this is a "mystery motor" and crankshaft,.
i would reccomend that you double check via an actual pre fitment of the hole in the back of crank..make certain that the hole is deep enpough for either the use of a pilot bearing install or the FREE FIT/looseness and depth of a torque converter.
many of these retro / reground cranks do not loose fit the newer converters or pilot bearings...and if you wait untill you are under the car to find out that it aint right, or you then burn up a thrust bearing in crank,..it will obviously be too late and then you will really just wanna pour in five gallons of gas in the seats and drop in a book of matches and walk away...........
 
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