[kjb302ho]

I’ve seen you post about the Holley in the past, you’ve pretty much said everything else except saying it’s garbage directly. Seems like you’re not a fan of it

Terminator is $1000 with a brand new harness, and a wideband. Don’t get much cheaper than that. Ac Control isn’t really a thing, just need fans to cut on and idle to increase - which most all stand-alone systems can do.

ac control isnt a thing...ok
pro m comes pre programmed for ac. just have to click enable
pro m comes a fan lead thats good for 75a. just hook it up to your fans and go. the relay is already wired up.

if your wants or needs are met with the holley, go with the holley.

I wanted to have everything at one shot, I chose the pro m.

 

[Cougar5.O]

Since I was reading this thread, I'll just add this here:

 

[96pushrod]

Since I was reading this thread, I'll just add this here:

View attachment 1069075

I’ve seen it called “spark latency”. You’ll find other systems need it occasionally, not just ones listed.

It’s like the opposite of a mechanical advance lol.

 

[kjb302ho]

pro m doesn't use an ignition module.

 

[2001sleeper]

So how does a stock vehicle deal with the “delay”?

 

[Cougar5.O]

I’ve seen it called “spark latency”. You’ll find other systems need it occasionally, not just ones listed.

It’s like the opposite of a mechanical advance lol.

I had to increase it as timing was moving as I revved the engine. I don't have TFI, may be my Accel ignition box. It's a once and done thing unless something is changed.

So how does a stock vehicle deal with the “delay”?

They factor it in at the design phase. It's only an issue whereas aftermarket is "mix and match" electronics, so this is needed to ensure delays are accounted for. May not be an issue with ProM if the ignition is built in.

 

[turboLXstang]

 

[BigDumbRedneck]

 

[Jim Tunstell]

Did anyone mention that Pro-M EFI has OBD II diagnostic capability? (I apologize in advance if someone mentioned it and I missed it). Not sure what Holley uses for troubleshooting..

 

[Jim Tunstell]

I’m in no way defending Chris, sticking up for him or saying it’s ok. But what I can tell you is that I probably have been a pain in the ass to Chris. I purchased my system second hand and had a lot of questions and problems from the beginning. I quickly realized that he did sound like he might be “short on patience” or short with his answers, especially when your question is answered in the instructions. Read! Read! Read!
Several times I have asked him something and explain to him in detail what is going on and all I get is “You need to read instructions, 3.4.1” as an example. It might make it seem like he is being rude or not wanting to be helpful, but then you go back and read the instructions and sure enough there is your answer. Just don’t take it personal, just think how many times he gets asked the same question when all the answers were in the instructions. It might get frustrating.
By being and answering the way he does it really helps you get an understanding for the system and in it’s wired. Like I said, don’t take it personal and as far as him making the comment “no you don’t” when you said you think you got it, well with all respect, you probably don’t got it and will need more help once you get to installing the system and setting it up. He can be very helpful but like I said just read and look for your answers first.

I purchased a Pro-M Efi setup for my car last year. I finally had time to start looking it over today. I'm comparing the oem harness to my Pro-M one and noticed the CCRM harness is missing. At first I thought it was just a fan control ecu but it does more than that. I decided to call Pro M and speak to someone. I got Chris Richards. I ask him about the missing connector for the fan control. He states "Your car doesn't have a fan control". The ccrm has relays that control fans, fuel pump etc, which I discovered after the call. He tells me it has a ccrm that is deleted with the kit. I'm sure he knows what I'm getting at but he wanted to be condescending. He also tells me it is located in the fender well. BS, it is right behind the radiator and fan on my car. He then asks me if I had any other questions and I told him "I think I got it" he laughs and says "No you don't." Mind you, I haven't even started doing the install I'm just checking my parts over before doing so. I probably should have told him that the Pro-M harness wasn't modified for my Fox body tb setup like I asked when purchasing but I had enough of his attitude. Pure arrogance from this dude, and he has know idea of my skill level when making such comments. I'm just verifying my stuff like a mechanics supposed to do before starting. I expect better from a company I spent $3000 with!

We did the same thing when I was in the Air Force. We were really just challenging each other to be better mechanics (read, research, learn, etc.) rather than depending on someone to handhold us through our work. Some guys didn't like it, but everyone upped their game (when working on 100 million dollar fighter jets) to be the best technician possible. Chris did the same thing to me and it took me back to my Air Force days when I did it to other folks. I haven't asked Mr. Richards a question since, not because if felt insulted, but because I have really been studying the Pro-M EFI system and frankly, I don't need him anymore for technical assistance. I just need him to stay in business so I can buy replacement parts (if needed). Don't let it bother you, just use it as an opportunity to get better at using the EFI system (Holly or Pro-M). Next thing you know, you will become the "go to" guy regarding the (EFI system) of your choice.

 

[Nitrous SSC]

I just need him to stay in business so I can buy replacement parts (if needed).

Holley, MASSIVE company and likely outsells Pro-M units 10 to one if not more. Support is massive and the company will be around for a long time. In fact, Holley products are so available my local speed shop carries TermX, HP, and Dominator ECU's on the fricken shelf as stock. If for some reason my TermX ****s out I can seriously go buy one off a shelf!!! Pro-M systems are mostly Ford based. The Holley, EVERYTHING that takes fuel, lol.

Nothing worse than paying top dollar for something then support/company closes it's doors.

 

[kjb302ho]

pro m has been around long time.

quality over quantity.

 

[Nitrous SSC]

pro m has been around long time.

quality over quantity.

They actually closed their doors for a short time if I remember correctly, that's why PMAS got started.

 

[Michael Plummer]

Okay let me be crystal clear, I don't care what anyone runs for a supercharger, cylinder heads, or even an Engine Management System (EMS). But I wanted to clear up some misinformation.

Back in 2007 and in 2014, I had the pleasure of meeting and interviewing Chris Richards of Pro-M Racing.

1. Here is my write-up from that 2007 visit and Chris Richards's comments on my PMAS meter. My trip to Pro-M Racing | Ford Mustang Forums (corral.net)

2. Here's my latest thread from my Chris Richards interviews. All informative videos (in my opinion of course) but I enjoyed the last interview part 7 because I'm in it at the 4:50 minute mark. Pro-M Racing Interview | Ford Mustang Forums (corral.net)

3. Going to expand on the history of Pro-M Racing.

Pro-Flow Technologies was founded by Bob Atwood, a Ford engineer who later died due to complications from diabetes. Pro Flow began selling the Pro-M product line. Please note Pro-M is NOT Pro-M Racing.

The company was purchased by Jim Gonzales, who started his own company and he called it Best Products. He wasn't a very good business person and along with his employees, they proceeded to run the business into the ground, at which time it was seized by the bank. That was in 2005. The lawsuit with JR Granatelli didn’t help either.

One of the employees from Best Products took some of the equipment and started PMAS. They have been in and out of business several times since and have gone through several owners. Not a big deal because it happens a lot in the business world.

Shortly after the bank seized the company, Chris Richards purchased it and changed the name to "Pro-M Racing". The company remained closed for a short period of time while Chris Richards moved and refurbished the equipment. The company reopened in late 2005. It has grown steadily ever since and more profitable every year. I think it’s safe to say Pro-M Racing is going nowhere after 15 years in business. No bankruptcies just hard work ethic and a dedication to bringing the consumer a product that works well. I believe Chris Richards's conscience will not allow anything less. Just check out part 7 of my interview series with Chris Richards where I ask Chris what's his motivation in business.

4. Holley was damn near out of business not long ago and was rescued by a group of investors. I believe that was 4 years ago? And they also filed for a couple of bankruptcies back in 2008 but as I mentioned before it happens in the business world holley files for bankruptcies - Google Search

Now some people may believe that this group of investors could care less about the product and only want a return on their investment but it's my hope that is not the case. Does it matter if anyone in the group of owners/investors has any knowledge of the products they sell? For some maybe but for me, I really don't care. I believe the Holley Dominator and Holley HP Engine Management Systems are good products.

I hope this clears up any misinformation.

Thanks
Michael Plummer

 

[John Janek]

A few words about tuning and dynos:

The Pro M system is set up to run most engine combinations very well without the need of a dyno and with minimal setup work by the end user. If it's your desire to plug in a system and do little beyond that other than go drive the car and have fun, the Pro M system fits the bill perfectly.

Not everyone is like Mike or I am trying to squeeze every drop of horsepower out of their combination. However, if you are like that, the Pro M is STILL a perfect fit. I do not agree with a prior statement that if you like to tune, choose Holley and if you don't like to tune, choose Pro M. I actually like to tune, and I without a doubt still pick Pro M as my preference to do it. In my experience, there is no system out there that makes it as easy for the end user to tune on their own to achieve maximum performance.

In fact, tuning max performance is about the easiest tuning there is in general. You tweak desired air:fuel and spark advance in the path the data tracks through a few tables and see if power goes up. It's everything in between idle and WOT that is the hard part. With Pro M you have to do nothing there even if you are a horsepower junkie.

Real example - a friend of Mike's and mine. I assembled the engine - 302 with heads, cam, intake, 15 pounds of boost, and all the rest of the stuff that goes along with a typical street car setup. He installed the Pro M system. I entered his injector data and MAF transfer function in his calibration file. He followed the base idle setup instructions. Then he drove the car for two years with factory quality drivability. One weekend we went to the dyno for fun. We went a little more aggressive on the timing and added a little more fuel. He drove home with 16 more hp. Was it necessary? Absolutely not. Does he notice the power increase? He says no. He has a dyno sheet that has a slightly higher number on it to put on his window at car shows.

 

[fastk]

Holley, MASSIVE company and likely outsells Pro-M units 10 to one if not more. Support is massive and the company will be around for a long time. In fact, Holley products are so available my local speed shop carries TermX, HP, and Dominator ECU's on the fricken shelf as stock. If for some reason my TermX ****s out I can seriously go buy one off a shelf!!! Pro-M systems are mostly Ford based. The Holley, EVERYTHING that takes fuel, lol.

Nothing worse than paying top dollar for something then support/company closes it's doors.

Very good point

 

[Layzie]

Call pro-m , your going to get an engineer to help you
Call holley, your going to get a salesman to help you

Understanding the personality difference when communicating to each will go a long way.

I had my battles with Chris @ pro-m, Lost every freaking one of them. He chuckled at me a couple times and was short with me couple times. But that was only when I was being stubborn.. He told me the answers in the first 60 seconds of every call, I just dragged it on and on and he knew it and called me out on it.

After I wiped my But I realized I just needed to STFU and listen, then STFU and read, then STFU and DO.... The guy knows his ****. He's on another level.

I'll take the blunt engineer on his cell phone over the script reader whos call is being recorded for quality BS every time!

 

[fastk]

Pro M customer service hmm waiting for Chris Richard to get back to me for a week. I send him 3 emails no response I called no response.The person that picks up the phone doesn’t know anything all he tells you contact Chris Richard. I had good and bad experience over all bad I might change this if Chris Richard will have some form of respect to Loyal customers. I spent ton of money and for him not to response to my questions when I need help is unacceptable.

 

[kjb302ho]

what number are you calling and what email bare you using?

 

[kjb302ho]

what number are you calling and what email are you using?

[email protected]

508-867-6733