[bsfguy]

I adjusted my fuel injector flow rate and it pretty much fixed everything else. I had to bring the high slope down and then readjust the low slope, everything is working much better now. As for the fuel pump, it's not as oversized as I originally thought it was, but it's still bypassing a good amount of fuel. The pump is flowing about 150gph at 40psi, so it's still large, just not as oversize as originally thought. It's a Magnafuel Protuner 750, I plan to have it sized down to a 625 which flows about 110gph at 40psi, so a bit smaller, but it'll still support the power I'm making.

I highly doubt that little difference in pump is going to matter if "too big of pump" is your issue. I actually run the 625 pump with an A1000 regulator. I use the regulator as dual 6an input and the 6an out is hooked up to 8an return line. The pump is gravity fed slightly below my sump outlet (1/2" NPT) with a 100 micron prefilter and 10 micron on the pressure site. I've observed no issues with over-pressuring, cavitation, or hot fuel...nothing to indicate that an issue is anywhere close to presenting itself and I only make approx 500whp NA so the pump is theoretically 3x larger than I'd require.

 

[Helomech74]

I highly doubt that little difference in pump is going to matter if "too big of pump" is your issue. I actually run the 625 pump with an A1000 regulator. I use the regulator as dual 6an input and the 6an out is hooked up to 8an return line. The pump is gravity fed slightly below my sump outlet (1/2" NPT) with a 100 micron prefilter and 10 micron on the pressure site. I've observed no issues with over-pressuring, cavitation, or hot fuel...nothing to indicate that an issue is anywhere close to presenting itself and I only make approx 500whp NA so the pump is theoretically 3x larger than I'd require.

I'm currently running the Protuner 750, 100 micron prefilter, 10 micron post filter. The pump is mounted in the tank with a -12 feed to the outlet. -10 feed to a Y block feeding -8 to each rail, then to the Magnafuel regulator and a -8 return to the tank. Also running a -8 Vent line to a rollover valve. The car made about 760hp/660tq on the previous setup. Chris believes that the large pump is messing with the injector tuning (Deatchwerks 88lb).

Either way, it's 100 bucks to have the pump sized down and they return the gears and shear plates, so I'd be able to swap it back to a 750 on my own if need be.

Where in the tune variables can we open and log fuel pressure? I'm also going to be installing a fuel temp gauge as well so I can actually see how much the fuel temp increases when cruising around. I've seen some slight pressure drops on my pressure gauge in the summer when the temps are up around 90-100 degrees or so.

 

[bsfguy]

Where in the tune variables can we open and log fuel pressure?

Nope. I had a gauge and just made sure it moved 1:1 in reference to vacuum.

 

[Helomech74]

Nope. I had a gauge and just made sure it moved 1:1 in reference to vacuum.

Yeah, I have a gauge in the car, just was hoping to find a way to log it. It's hard to watch the gauges and pay attention to driving as well, lol. I plan on putting the car on the Dyno in May and fine tuning it then. I've been playing with the injector data in the tune and things are getting much better. Also need to address my cooling system. Currently the car won't go above 180 degrees in the cold weather (actually drops down to around 160 when cruising) So, I'm going to remove the thermostat and install one with smaller bypass holes in it. The current one has 3 1/8" holes in it, going to try 1 hole and see how that works.

 

[bd93cobra]

I adjusted my fuel injector flow rate and it pretty much fixed everything else. I had to bring the high slope down and then readjust the low slope, everything is working much better now. As for the fuel pump, it's not as oversized as I originally thought it was, but it's still bypassing a good amount of fuel. The pump is flowing about 150gph at 40psi, so it's still large, just not as oversize as originally thought. It's a Magnafuel Protuner 750, I plan to have it sized down to a 625 which flows about 110gph at 40psi, so a bit smaller, but it'll still support the power I'm making.

I'll be putting it on the dyno sometime this spring and adjusting the fuel and spark tables as needed.

Did you have to adjust your injector slopes much? Per Chris’s recommendation, I switched to a set of injectors with good data. I went with his 62’s, high slope 65.865/low slope 134.5. After installing them I am seeing the same thing I was with my 36’s. To get the bank 1&2 fuel corrections down to 1 I had to reduce the low slope from 134.5 all the way down to 42. This doesn’t seem right. With my 36’s my low slope was reduced from about 80 down to 26. Just curious what you were seeing. Another thing I noticed, not sure if it’s related or not, I’m running the Aeromotive A1000 regulator and with the fuel pressure at 41 psi, regulator is a 40-70 psi and it won’t go any lower (I figure I’m just within the error of my fuel pressure gauge) vacuum gauge reads 10-11 in Hg so I expected the fuel pressure to drop 5 psi when vacuum is connected to regulator but if only drops about 2 psi. I am running an in-tank 340 lph pump with -8 supply and -6 return lines.

 

[kjb302ho]

I would honestly try another fuel pressure gauge. I ran into the same problem. Use the port on the regulator and use a fitting to t into the feed line of the rail. Both reading should be the same.

Fwiw ive had issues with aeromotive regulator in the past. I run fuelab now.

 

[Helomech74]

Did you have to adjust your injector slopes much? Per Chris’s recommendation, I switched to a set of injectors with good data. I went with his 62’s, high slope 65.865/low slope 134.5. After installing them I am seeing the same thing I was with my 36’s. To get the bank 1&2 fuel corrections down to 1 I had to reduce the low slope from 134.5 all the way down to 42. This doesn’t seem right. With my 36’s my low slope was reduced from about 80 down to 26. Just curious what you were seeing. Another thing I noticed, not sure if it’s related or not, I’m running the Aeromotive A1000 regulator and with the fuel pressure at 41 psi, regulator is a 40-70 psi and it won’t go any lower (I figure I’m just within the error of my fuel pressure gauge) vacuum gauge reads 10-11 in Hg so I expected the fuel pressure to drop 5 psi when vacuum is connected to regulator but if only drops about 2 psi. I am running an in-tank 340 lph pump with -8 supply and -6 return lines.

I did have to adjust my slopes a good bit. The data that came loaded for the Deatchwerks 88's are what Chris had. It came loaded with the high slope at 93 and the low slope at 170 and the car wouldn't run without throwing a bunch of codes. After talking to Chris I adjusted the low slope to 120 and managed to get the car running without throwing a code, then started adjusting the low slope down to 85 which is incorrect because it should be higher then the high slope. So, now I'm at 93 high slope and 85 low slope to have my corrections at about 3-5%. Talking to Chris again, he suggested bringing the high slope down to 88 which is what the injectors are rated at, this allowed me to bring the low slope up to 90. I spoke with Deatchwerks and they rate their injectors at 43.5psi, so I did as suggested in Chris's video and divided the flow rate at 43.5psi and divided by 1.054 to give me the flow at 39.15 which gave me 83 for the high slope and was able to again adjust my low slope to 93 and now I'm at about 1-3% correction.

Anyway, it took a bit to get it there, but the car is running much better. The cold start is still a little wonky, but it still starts and idles decent for me.

 

[mr_minnis]

Fuel Injector data on this system is pretty important. On cranking it doesn't use the MAF meter. It uses the injector data and engine information to calculate how much fuel to inject. They have used that process on numerous cars with success.

it is interesting because if you look at the flow data from the other injectors and use a formula the data for the 62s seem weird. I emailed Chris about this and he said it is correct.

Keep in mind this system also uses a keep alive memory. it is normal when you start it up the first time that it idles weird. it will learn how much air to allow in over a few startups. keep in mind every time you disconnect the battery or write a calibration file it erases the keep alive memory.

they have made this system so simple it hurts. your maf data, injector data and timing have to be correct. everything else falls into place. You also need to make sure your sensors are quality units. I would make sure motorcraft units are the ones you use,

I too have the 62 LB injectors for Pro M. I have a 302 with a turbo. While working on this system I have found things wrong with the car I didn't even know about.Power and grounds are also very important with this system

 

[Helomech74]

Only reason I went with the DW injectors is because when I bought the system I was told by the sales guy that Chris had excellent data for them and he had actually helped DW with getting the correct data. Well after getting everything installed and talking to Chris he said that he did help DW with some injectors, just not the 88's that I have. So, I was a little pissed about that because I got rid of a good set of Deka 80's for these DW's.

The car is running decent, the MAF transfer should be perfect since Chris loaded it for the 3" Pro Tube. Chris admits that the 88lb data isn't totally correct that he supplied, but we'll keep messing with them until it's correct. The sensors are stock Ford Parts, although I think I'm going to replace the TPS since the mount holes have been drilled out for more adjustment and it makes it difficult to set correctly. Other then that, not much else needs to be tended to. Grounds are solid, charging system is great, no vacuum leaks, etc. I'm even starting to doubt any issues with the fuel pump. It might be bypassing a bunch of fuel when cruising or idling, but the fuel temps are normal and no pressure drops.

I do need to address the cooling system. In cooler weather the car won't stay above 180. Mod motor 4v cars came stock with an oddball thermostat housing with a bypass line to bypass the radiator until the thermostat opens. That bypass line has been removed and a standard thermostat housing has been installed on the outlet of the radiator. I'm going to move the thermostat to the inlet side of the radiator and get a new thermostat with no bypass holes in it. The one in there now has 3 3/16" holes in it, so it's bypassing too much coolant.

The car already runs better then it did, so even though it's not there 100%, I'm still happy with it.

 

[Michael Plummer]

The cold start is still a little wonky.

Describe wonky.

Thanks
Michael Plummer

 

[Helomech74]

Describe wonky.

Thanks
Michael Plummer

The car cranks, stumbles, jumps up to around 1200rpm and then dies. Second crank the car hunts for a proper idle, then settles into about 1100-1200rpm and slowly drops down to the commanded idle as the car warms up. Every first crank the car stumbles then dies, second crank it hunts for the proper idle and sometimes I have to keep my foot on the gas pedal to keep it from dying. So far it's done this every time, but once the car is warm it starts fine. The temps in the garage when it does this have been around 45 degrees or so.

 

[mr_minnis]

The car cranks, stumbles, jumps up to around 1200rpm and then dies. Second crank the car hunts for a proper idle, then settles into about 1100-1200rpm and slowly drops down to the commanded idle as the car warms up. Every first crank the car stumbles then dies, second crank it hunts for the proper idle and sometimes I have to keep my foot on the gas pedal to keep it from dying. So far it's done this every time, but once the car is warm it starts fine. The temps in the garage when it does this have been around 45 degrees or so.

1) are you disconnecting battery or anything in between starts?
2) You have tuned the low slope values to stoic at 190 degrees or so? what happens if you have default injector data in there?

if you have been driving car you might disconnect battery before re tuning injector data. I have used the logs to average injector PI correction to get me in ballpark. When I do that I disconnect fuel pump and put in data with key on engine off and write calibration. re hook up fuel pump. When system writes calibration it injects fuel. That can screw with diagnosing first start.

 

[mr_minnis]

I guess I will ask a question:

1) for those that took it to dyno:
Was your dyno operator ok with everything being setup already? assuming you installed the system and setup the required parameters correctly. The dyno around here was not receptive to the system afr and timing table being setup already. I wanted to run a baseline to see when boost was coming in and what the next step in car was.

2) free air calibration:
I am using a single mtx-l (single turbo car) What numbers were on the gauge when you did it? I assumed it should be like 22.4. Mine showed 20.9.


I've been working on some minor drivability issues. Chris has been very helpful but I don't think it is ems related. I think there is something else wrong.
I have 2 problems: random high idle and if I let the car coast down in gear for 4 seconds and put it in neutral the engine will die. I think the issues are related. I haven't been able to find issue in logs. I need to have someone in car with laptop when it happens to stop the log quickly. I don't think the ems is losing power. I thought Someone had posted about the coast down issue but I haven't been able to find it again. I happen to glance down yesterday when I was duplicating issue and saw "E9" on MTX-L gauge. possibly a clue, I'm going to check wideband grounding
my saying is "if you go looking for trouble you will find it" I have replaced throttle body and numerous connectors that were questionable. car runs better but problems still exist.

 

[turboLXstang]

I believe I had an issue where it would die while or coasting, it’s been so long, I want to say I replaced the IAC valve, I’m not sure what size engine you have but I used the 351w valve and it never happened again, I have a 393w, you can find them on rockauto for cheap, the motorcraft ones. I think I had an IAC spacer for clearance around the TB, the new 351w one is smaller and negated me having to use the spacer.