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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I’ve had the Pro M setup on my Factory Five for a while now. But, I am continuing to run into the same issue. I alternately throw Lean and Rich codes. Usually, P2195 & P2197 Lean codes. Yesterday, after changing the air filter element and using some MAF sensor cleaner, the car S&*$ the bed! (Very careful not to touch the wires). Would not run! Popped and sputtered. When I finally got it to fire, it ran like crap and the attached pic shows what the computer threw out.
Hood Purple Mesh Textile Automotive lighting


Today, after someone suggested maybe a stuck injector, I ran some injector cleaner. Took a while to get it to start. Finally smoothed out some. But, wont hold an idle and now is back to P2195 and P2197.

Thoughts?
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
BTW, I have done a clean air calibration on the O2 sensors and ensured the voltage is correct. I can’t see any issues there.

I’ve also done a smoke machine test for vacuum leaks and found nothing.
 

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you have to run one or the other. cant run both. pcv is sucking on the crank case, open air breather is sucking in unmetered air. the smoke test will show nothing because the vac leak is happening when the engine is running. so the wide bands are seeing unmetered air and trying to adjust for it.

cap off the pcv vac line and remove the valve from the cover.

readjust your low slope rate.

why do think that was the first question i asked?

same problem drive me crazy
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
you have to run one or the other. cant run both. pcv is sucking on the crank case, open air breather is sucking in unmetered air. the smoke test will show nothing because the vac leak is happening when the engine is running. so the wide bands are seeing unmetered air and trying to adjust for it.

cap off the pcv vac line and remove the valve from the cover.

readjust your low slope rate.

why do think that was the first question i asked?

same problem drive me crazy
Makes sense!
But, wouldn’t it be better to get rid of the breather and allow the EGR to circulate (breathe) back into the motor? Otherwise, the Breather will likely start pushing oil, no?
 

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if you're concerned about crank case pressure, vent the valve covers to a catch can and delete the pcv.

if you want to have a functional pcv, you need to hook up a fresh METERED AIR source before the throttle body.

What you would do is put a fitting in the air tube after the maf meter but before the throttle blade and run it to where the open air breather was. this way when the pcv sucks, its sucking in METERED air.

again, adjust low slopes after doing this.

try the caping off the pcv vac first and pulling the valve. you will most definitely have to adjust the low slope rate.

cant have it both ways.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
if you're concerned about crank case pressure, vent the valve covers to a catch can and delete the pcv.

if you want to have a functional pcv, you need to hook up a fresh METERED AIR source before the throttle body.

What you would do is put a fitting in the air tube after the maf meter but before the throttle blade and run it to where the open air breather was. this way when the pcv sucks, its sucking in METERED air.

again, adjust low slopes after doing this.

try the caping off the pcv vac first and pulling the valve. you will most definitely have to adjust the low slope rate.

cant have it both ways.
OK, Thanks!

This actually makes a lot of sense! I had it set up running to a catch can previously. started throwing codes after I changed it back to an EGR setup. Just didn’t put 2 and 2 together!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
So, I’ve been racking my brain as to why I went back to the PCV set up.
I rewatched Chris Richard’s PRO-M EFI installation vid and he has a section in there where he says to definitely run one. But, what you said also makes sense!

What am I missing?
 

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1965 fastback 347 hci v3-si Pro M efi. Tko600 3:55
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So, I’ve been racking my brain as to why I went back to the PCV set up.
I rewatched Chris Richard’s PRO-M EFI installation vid and he has a section in there where he says to definitely run one. But, what you said also makes sense!

What am I missing?
Go with open breathers and no PCV system
or, you have PCV system with the fresh air being taken past the mass air sensor.

PCV with open breather is just a vacuum leak.
 

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So, I’ve been racking my brain as to why I went back to the PCV set up.
I rewatched Chris Richard’s PRO-M EFI installation vid and he has a section in there where he says to definitely run one. But, what you said also makes sense!

What am I missing?
I thought the same thing when I first installed my system. But after a lot of research I found you can run open breathers with his system. When I do the updates to my engine this summer I'm going to plug the PCV and switch to open breathers on my valve covers. I'm switching to a Holley Systemax intake and I heard they have issues with sucking oil through the PVC valve.
 

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you can do whatever you want. as i stated and was repeated, on a maf system, a pcv with an open breather is a vac leak. you can adjust the low slope rate to mask the condition but you're going to be adding a lot of fuel. enough to the point where the low slope rate is less than the high slope rate. and thats a no no. but if you're ok with having 10%+ correction factor on one or both banks, depending if you have a breather on one or both covers, than have at it.

but dont wonder why your cel is on because the internet said you could have both.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
you can do whatever you want. as i stated and was repeated, on a maf system, a pcv with an open breather is a vac leak. you can adjust the low slope rate to mask the condition but you're going to be adding a lot of fuel. enough to the point where the low slope rate is less than the high slope rate. and thats a no no. but if you're ok with having 10%+ correction factor on one or both banks, depending if you have a breather on one or both covers, than have at it.

but dont wonder why your cel is on because the internet said you could have both.
No, I get it and intend to switch back to a catch can. I’m just wondering why he says to run a PCV if people are having problems with it.
 

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No, I get it and intend to switch back to a catch can. I’m just wondering why he says to run a PCV if people are having problems with it.
ive thought that as well. i theorize that the mcmaster carr check valve is restricting the amount of vacuum being pulled into the intake other than a traditional piece of 3/8 fuel hose connected to full vacuum and w pcv valve. so the amount of correction would be less and not set off the cel. Just a theory though, i dont have the time or need to investigate it further
 

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I thought the same thing when I first installed my system. But after a lot of research I found you can run open breathers with his system. When I do the updates to my engine this summer I'm going to plug the PCV and switch to open breathers on my valve covers. I'm switching to a Holley Systemax intake and I heard they have issues with sucking oil through the PVC valve.
Yep, make sure you install the baffling that comes with the intake and you definitely want a catch can with that intake. I think the baffle isn't very good on it is why it does it. I had to get an oil separator to resolve the issue with my Systemmax
 
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If anyone is looking for a really nice catch can, these motion ones are badass. I had a moroso one before (which I’ve always liked) and this one makes it look silly.

 

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If anyone is looking for a really nice catch can, these motion ones are badass. I had a moroso one before (which I’ve always liked) and this one makes it look silly.

Moroso makes the small version like that. I have it. I'll take a picture of it tonight.
 
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