New Hotside being installed

23805 Views 216 Replies 32 Participants Last post by KEVIN$, 2 mo ago

KEVIN$

Discussion Starter · Dec 6, 2015

I'm making some changes to the hot side of my TT car and I wanted to document the progress. The current hot side for the twin turbos was made by the original owner and there was a lot of issues with it that I hope I can correct.

Issues I hope to correct:
Crappy and ugly tubing bends
The wide front tires hit the exhaust pipes when turning.
Slow Spoolup
No front sway Bar
Need for front coilovers

This new setup starts with some custom CG Fab headers that Caleb made for me that use 2.25" collectors instead of 2.5". I've done a lot of research and discovered that there are plenty of cars making 1200-1800 hp with 2.25" hot side piping and they used the smaller tubing to speed up spool time. Since I'm only going for 900hp I'll be reducing the 2.25" collectors to 2" which should keep the velocity of the exhaust up and hopefully get the turbos spooling faster.

I'm tired of the noise the coilovers make so I'm going to try and put stock front springs on it. This will be a huge challenge so we may need to get creative with the exhaust routing.

Although the car drives fine without a sway bar with the coilovers I'm not sure it will drive the same with the stock springs in it so I'm going to try and get a sway bar on it. This will require a custom sway bar and mounts to be made but I have a preliminary quote for $500 to have one made and an idea of how to mount it. I've mocked up some new mounts which I'll post later but it basically mounts the swaybar farther forward and down.

Here's a pic of the custom headers. The passenger side didn't fit and required the use of a hammer and grinder to gain clearance to the frame and K-member. I'm afraid it's still going to hit the k-member but I didn't want to grind anymore nor dent the headers deeper. Pretty PO'd about needing to do this but not much could be done.

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KEVIN$

Discussion Starter · #161 · Jan 16, 2017

Big Rob said:
if I remember read correctly you have it going back to the pan?? why didnt you send it back by going into valve cover?? I have a similar set up and I am thinking of going to the valve cover. I know that the sts kit with remote turbos went back to the valve cover

The bungs are already in the pan plus it makes for a cleaner install on my car. I did think about returning it back to the v-cover but I didn't want to take a chance of flooding the heads with excess oil. IMO, the sooner it's in the pan the better. Some oil pans are not plumbed for return lines so the only place to run the lines w/o extra fabbing is to dump the oil in the v-covers.

Since I'm here a little update: I ordered a Turbowerx oil filter for the return oil before itgets to the pan. Since I've had such rotten luck with the new Innovate Dual WB kit I plan to put the one AFX/NTK WB kit back into use and will be getting a second AFX WB/NTK kit.

I'm also planning on another dyno day within the next two months to log the transmission issue (slips on the 2-3 shift) and since it's strapped down I want to see if the boost control issue is fixed. If it looks like it's working then I hope to add a little more boost (23-25psi). This won't be a tuning session but more of a test session to see what still needs work before I switch it to a flex fuel system to run E85/91oct.

ks

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KEVIN$

Discussion Starter · #162 · Feb 5, 2017

HOLY #####!!

I finally got a test run in this thing with the new tune, turbo piping and cams and WHAT A DIFFERENCE!! It's freaking VIOLENT! =D

I started in 2nd gear about 65-70mph and put my foot into it and boost started around 4-6psi (a guess) then in about .5 seconds it hit 20psi and lit the drag radials up HARD and put the car sideways big time and the motor on the rev limiter. I backed out it to straighten the car then put my foot back into it and again it violently lit the tires up and started going sideways. Then I just shifted in the 3rd and blew third gear in the trans so I limped the remaining few blocks home.

ks

97stanger97

· #163 · Feb 5, 2017

KEVIN$ said:
HOLY #####!!

I finally got a test run in this thing with the new tune, turbo piping and cams and WHAT A DIFFERENCE!! It's freaking VIOLENT! =D

I started in 2nd gear about 65-70mph and put my foot into it and boost started around 4-6psi (a guess) then in about .5 seconds it hit 20psi and lit the drag radials up HARD and put the car sideways big time and the motor on the rev limiter. I backed out it to straighten the car then put my foot back into it and again it violently lit the tires up and started going sideways. Then I just shifted in the 3rd and blew third gear in the trans so I limped the remaining few blocks home.

ks

Giving us goosebumps over here

y2k02

· #164 · Feb 5, 2017

How much boost did you have commanded?

KEVIN$

Discussion Starter · #165 · Feb 6, 2017

y2k02 said:
How much boost did you have commanded?

It's dialed in at 20psi.
According to the transmission log it went from 60mph to 82mph in .6 seconds

ks

Meegs

· #166 · Feb 6, 2017

Turbosmart Unveils OPR T40 Oil Pressure Regulation System

??

Reactions: 1

KEVIN$

Discussion Starter · #167 · Feb 6, 2017

Meegs said:
Turbosmart Unveils OPR T40 Oil Pressure Regulation System

??

Go figure... I searched for about a year for something like that. That's exactly what is needed for our cars that run a lot of oil psi.

Great Find!

ks

KEVIN$

Discussion Starter · #168 · Feb 26, 2017

My return and feed lines are all 1/2" / -8AN and the Flex Fuel sensor is 3/8" / -6AN. So I made this fuel log that the sensor attaches too and this will go inline of the fuel line. The Megasquirt will have tunes for E85 and for 91oct and this sensor will measure the alcohol content of the fuel then switch between the proper fueling table or even blend the tables if I'm running a mixture of E85 and 91oct.

ks

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y2k02

· #169 · Mar 4, 2017

I kinda see that the fuel will not flow through the sensor portion.

Here is my vacuum pump mounted.

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Bigcam88

· #170 · Mar 4, 2017

a1 looking fab work

KEVIN$

Discussion Starter · #171 · Mar 4, 2017

y2k02 said:
I kinda see that the fuel will not flow through the sensor portion.

I spoke to several people and we all agree that since it doesn't need to measure fuel volume the fuel should flow through it enough for the sensor to measure the fuel content. All we could find was that the sensor won't work well if it's simply sitting in a bucket w/o any flow through it but since I couldn't find any detailed info of exactly how the sensor does work we could all be wrong.

y2k02 said:
Here is my vacuum pump mounted.

That looks really nice mounted there! Post up some more pics if you want I'm curious on how it mounts.

ks

KEVIN$

Discussion Starter · #172 · Mar 11, 2017

KEVIN$ said:
HOLY #####!!

I finally got a test run in this thing with the new tune, turbo piping and cams and WHAT A DIFFERENCE!! It's freaking VIOLENT! =D

I started in 2nd gear about 65-70mph and put my foot into it and boost started around 4-6psi (a guess) then in about .5 seconds it hit 20psi and lit the drag radials up HARD and put the car sideways big time and the motor on the rev limiter. I backed out it to straighten the car then put my foot back into it and again it violently lit the tires up and started going sideways. Then I just shifted in the 3rd and blew third gear in the trans so I limped the remaining few blocks home.

ks

Yesterday I took a road trip to drop the patient off to Dan G. (SilverFox) and we discussed in detail what I did and what may have happen to the trans. Since this trans has all the GOOD stuff in it curiosity struck and he spent about 10 minutes taking it all apart.. All I can say is OUCH! All the high $$ parts are hurt and need replaced.

The cause of the issue was when I manually shifted the trans using a stock trans tune there was enough wheel spin that when I manually shifted from 2nd to 3rd the trans went right into OD. This broke or scored all kinds of parts. The clutches look good which may be about the only parts that survived the ordeal but shafts twisted off, pump got scored etc..
:crying2:

There was a little bit of black dust in the pan and it didn't look like it was from the clutches so Dan recommends sending the converter off (tripple disc) to have it looked at while it's apart.

Naturally this is all my fault and Dan and I were talking about how to Super Duper Idiot Proof (SDIP) the system so I don't do this again. I'm using the Baumann Quick4 controller and we think using some sort of manual switch to activate OD when I need it instead of OD being activated by default but also a safety switch that automatically deactivates OD in case I'm using the wrong trans tune. The Q4 can store multiple trans tunes and I plan to have one for Race and one for Street but if I'm using the Street tune I need some safety built into it in case I feel spunky.

I also have Megasquirt that I may be able to utilize to send signals to the Q4 for the safety controls, MAP, TPS, ect. I'll have to see what Karl Baumann thinks we may be able to do.

Naturally Dan wants me to go full manual valve body but I'm stubborn and I still prefer full auto shifting. I gotta say I enjoy talking with Dan. He's a great guy to deal with and to hang out with and obviously has patience with me since what I want out of the trans is not the norm.

97stanger97: If you go with the Q4 I'd be happy to help you with it once we figure out a solution so this doesn't happen to your car. As you can see one simple mishap can be a baaaad thing.

In another update:
Since I had soooo many issues with the Innovate Dual WB system that I was using I spent last week removing it all (For Sale Here) and installing two WB kits back on the car. The new WB's use a higher quality O2 sensor so I hope to have better life expectancy from them.

Besides the transmission not being in the car it looks like I'm ready to install the 160inj's that are sitting on the shelf then get new tunes for 91oct and E85 and see what #'s the rollers can produce on E85.

ks

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97stanger97

· #173 · Mar 11, 2017

KEVIN$ said:
Yesterday I took a road trip to drop the patient off to Dan G. (SilverFox) and we discussed in detail what I did and what may have happen to the trans. Since this trans has all the GOOD stuff in it curiosity struck and he spent about 10 minutes taking it all apart.. All I can say is OUCH! All the high $$ parts are hurt and need replaced.

The cause of the issue was when I manually shifted the trans using a stock trans tune there was enough wheel spin that when I manually shifted from 2nd to 3rd the trans went right into OD. This broke or scored all kinds of parts. The clutches look good which may be about the only parts that survived the ordeal but shafts twisted off, pump got scored etc..
:crying2:

There was a little bit of black dust in the pan and it didn't look like it was from the clutches so Dan recommends sending the converter off (tripple disc) to have it looked at while it's apart.

Naturally this is all my fault and Dan and I were talking about how to Super Duper Idiot Proof (SDIP) the system so I don't do this again. I'm using the Baumann Quick4 controller and we think using some sort of manual switch to activate OD when I need it instead of OD being activated by default but also a safety switch that automatically deactivates OD in case I'm using the wrong trans tune. The Q4 can store multiple trans tunes and I plan to have one for Race and one for Street but if I'm using the Street tune I need some safety built into it in case I feel spunky.

I also have Megasquirt that I may be able to utilize to send signals to the Q4 for the safety controls, MAP, TPS, ect. I'll have to see what Karl Baumann thinks we may be able to do.

Naturally Dan wants me to go full manual valve body but I'm stubborn and I still prefer full auto shifting. I gotta say I enjoy talking with Dan. He's a great guy to deal with and to hang out with and obviously has patience with me since what I want out of the trans is not the norm.

97stanger97: If you go with the Q4 I'd be happy to help you with it once we figure out a solution so this doesn't happen to your car. As you can see one simple mishap can be a baaaad thing.

In another update:
Since I had soooo many issues with the Innovate Dual WB system that I was using I spent last week removing it all (it will be for sale) and installing two WB kits back on the car. The new WB's use a higher quality O2 sensor so I hope to have better life expectancy from them.

Besides the transmission not being in the car it looks like I'm ready to install the 160inj's that are sitting on the shelf then get new tunes for 91oct and E85 and see what #'s the rollers can produce on E85.

ks

Man I'm really sorry to hear all of that, having expensive mistakes is never any fun. I know the feeling, my last motor lasted me probably 5,000 miles before I starved it of oil...really sucks. But you'll make that thing better and stronger and upgrade along the way. For sure keep me up to date on what you talk to Karl about, I have reached out to both him and Dan a good bit about it all as well. Exactly what happened to you, is what I could totally see happening to anybody else with a setup like that. I was just sitting in my car yesterday messing with the new B&M shifter I mounted up and when manually shifting and going from 1-2-D, the shifter can shift right up into Neutral which is a little scary. I was considering just staying full auto valve body and a Q4 controller as well. Best of luck man

KEVIN$

Discussion Starter · #174 · Mar 11, 2017

97stanger97 said:
Man I'm really sorry to hear all of that, having expensive mistakes is never any fun. I know the feeling, my last motor lasted me probably 5,000 miles before I starved it of oil...really sucks. But you'll make that thing better and stronger and upgrade along the way. For sure keep me up to date on what you talk to Karl about, I have reached out to both him and Dan a good bit about it all as well. Exactly what happened to you, is what I could totally see happening to anybody else with a setup like that. I was just sitting in my car yesterday messing with the new B&M shifter I mounted up and when manually shifting and going from 1-2-D, the shifter can shift right up into Neutral which is a little scary. I was considering just staying full auto valve body and a Q4 controller as well. Best of luck man

OK.. I'll keep this thread updated with what I find out. Naturally the fix is to never have OD active or Never, EVER get into it if OD is active. But all it takes is that ONE time to cause this mistake all over again so having the "street tune" be idiot proof is the best solution for me.

ks

AlexLTDLX

· #175 · Mar 12, 2017

I lived with that fear for almost 20 years. I roasted an OD band early on, rebuilt the AOD and ran it successfully for another 14 years - always with the knowledge that the wrong move could toast the tranny. When the planetary started making noise in reverse it was time to step up the game. An 1,800 hp capable powerglide and 3.08 gears mean I never, ever have to worry about blowing things up again, it leaves hard and cruises on the highway very nicely. First gear in a higher hp street car is usually useless anyway.

KEVIN$

Discussion Starter · #176 · Apr 2, 2017

Trans Update 4/2/17:

Trans is back from Dan (Silverfox) and the converter is back from Precision (no issues found) so the plan is to install it next weekend. In the meantime I've been talking with Karl and Dan about S.D.I.P. this thing (Super Duper Idiot Proof) and Karl said things can be setup using the Quick4 trans controller.

1. Make sure OD is De-Activated on initial startup. Most of my driving will be done in town with the occasional jaunt on the interstate or highway several times a month so this shouldn't be an issue.

2. Have multiple tunes in the controller:
a. First Tune (Street Tune) to have OD not active by default.
b. Second Tune will be the Dyno Tune with OD completely Deactivated.
c. Third Tune will be the Race Tune with OD completely Deactivated.
*Once the dyno sessions are over and I hit my 900hp goal (gotta think positive) I won't need the three tunes.

3. I'm using the stock 4R70 shifter in my car and the OD Button on the side of the shifter will operate as follows:
a. Start the car up and the Street Tune is set as the default tune with OD deactivated.
b. Once the car is running press the OD button quickly and the Dyno Tune loads. It's already setup to do this and works really good for the dyno pulls.
c. HOLD the OD button for 3 seconds then the OD becomes active. If the TPS value gets above 3V (or ??) then OD becomes Deactivated.

I'm still working with Karl on the above setup. I'm concerned that the Dyno Operator may accidentally hold the button down too long and initiate OD instead of the dyno tune. Naturally we can always eliminate the Street Tune completely until the dyno sessions are done and this may be the way I go so there is only the Race Tune and the Dyno Tune to switch between.

ks

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97stanger97

· #177 · Apr 3, 2017

Good stuff! Can't wait to see how you get it all setup and your thoughts on it

KEVIN$

Discussion Starter · #178 · Apr 12, 2017

A little update: Dyno Day is scheduled for May 8th and the car will be running E85 and the goal will be 900hp through the muffs. In preparation I decided to remove the IC and flush all the oil out of it from the stupid attack I had when I left the scavenge pump turned off while running the car over the winter. When I removed the IC and tipped it over about 1 cup of rust flakes came out of one side and the same with the other side. I spent about an hour cleaning it out and it looks real nice now.

Upon inspecting the chrome inlet pipes they are all rusted on the inside and the limited amount of plating on the inside is coming off...aarrgg.. They really look like garbage. Sooo I took 4 coat hangers and stuck them in a drill then spun them inside each pipe to scrape out all the rust and plating. A few hours later they were finished but there was a LOT of #### that was scraped out. I think they'll be fine for a time but they'll have to be watched. Live and learn.

ks

KEVIN$

Discussion Starter · #179 · May 8, 2017

Car's back on the dyno today running E85. So far not bad. Car has made 742 @20psi basically just cleaning up the VE tables for E85 not really trying to make power yet.

THE BAD news is that the passenger turbo blew the seal AGAIN (!!!!) and it's blowing oil all over the place. It's always the passenger turbo too...odd. I installed a filter after the scavenge pump so I'm going to remove it and see if this helps. I'm also going to have a friend look at the system and see if he can see what may be causing this issue. He's good at thinking out of the box so may see something that could help.

I won't let it stop me from making some more pulls but it does make a mess under the car..

ks

Ares

· #180 · May 8, 2017

Dang that is real nice so far.

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