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New Hotside being installed

23805 Views 216 Replies 32 Participants Last post by  KEVIN$
I'm making some changes to the hot side of my TT car and I wanted to document the progress. The current hot side for the twin turbos was made by the original owner and there was a lot of issues with it that I hope I can correct.

Issues I hope to correct:
Crappy and ugly tubing bends
The wide front tires hit the exhaust pipes when turning.
Slow Spoolup
No front sway Bar
Need for front coilovers

This new setup starts with some custom CG Fab headers that Caleb made for me that use 2.25" collectors instead of 2.5". I've done a lot of research and discovered that there are plenty of cars making 1200-1800 hp with 2.25" hot side piping and they used the smaller tubing to speed up spool time. Since I'm only going for 900hp I'll be reducing the 2.25" collectors to 2" which should keep the velocity of the exhaust up and hopefully get the turbos spooling faster.

I'm tired of the noise the coilovers make so I'm going to try and put stock front springs on it. This will be a huge challenge so we may need to get creative with the exhaust routing.

Although the car drives fine without a sway bar with the coilovers I'm not sure it will drive the same with the stock springs in it so I'm going to try and get a sway bar on it. This will require a custom sway bar and mounts to be made but I have a preliminary quote for $500 to have one made and an idea of how to mount it. I've mocked up some new mounts which I'll post later but it basically mounts the swaybar farther forward and down.

Here's a pic of the custom headers. The passenger side didn't fit and required the use of a hammer and grinder to gain clearance to the frame and K-member. I'm afraid it's still going to hit the k-member but I didn't want to grind anymore nor dent the headers deeper. Pretty PO'd about needing to do this but not much could be done.
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I really like how it's turning out I just wish I didn't have to make a new hood b/c I want to be done with it. Hopefully in about 6 weeks I can call it quits for the year but I need to persevere and stay focused until the hood is completed.

ks
Nice pics! A guy I work with has a DeLorean - a friend of his took some "light painting" shots of it - where you sit on a series of long exposures, "painting" the car with light. Give it a shot (no pun intended). When you combine the shots and paint out the guy with the light, you end up with this:

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I like it. That process has nice lighting affects..interesting.

ks
BRINGING MY THREAD BACK UP FROM THE DEAD BECAUSE IT'S GOING BACK ON THE DYNO NEXT WEEK MARCH 16TH 2023:

Nothing real major in changes but we will be pushing it a lot harder.

The main reason that it's going back is because I removed the Meth Injection. The meth pump went bad last Fall and I didn't want to keep spending $200 to replace something that isn't needed on this car since it runs on E85.

I also learned something about Fuel Pumps! I had to put new fuel pumps in it b/c I discovered that a lot of fuel pumps are internally regulated at 63psi of fuel pressure no matter how much is commanded. When I looked at the log files sure enough I was commanding 75psi and only getting 63psi. I now have three 450lph Hellcat pumps which can go to over 100psi of fuel pressure so I should be good.

So no more meth injection and I have found more info about the strength of these Iron Cobra blocks. Rumors had them breaking at 500-700hp which is true but investigating this more always showed other factors (mostly lack of proper fueling) that failed first causing a lot of broken parts. I have found one Gent running a Factory Iron short block complete with factory rods, rod bolts, main bolts, etc that dyno'd over 1400RWP on a Turbo/Auto combo and ran 7's @180mph for three years and I found others that are running low 8's @ 165mph...all good news for those of us that have the Cobra Iron Blocks. Reading how strong the blocks can be I'm not worried to push it harder.

I also installed pressure sensors: One to measure pressure before the turbo and one to measure the pressure before the IC. My turbos are small at 61mm but they are designed to be pushed really hard so that's what I'm going to do.

I plan to try and hit 1000+HP though the exhaust and run up to around 45psi of boost if the turbos will pass that much. None of these numbers are a "must have". I will simply play it by ear and if it doesn't get there no big deal but if it does, Great! It's already making 900 and all it needs is another 100 but it's going to be close..

I also have GoPros that I plan to use to film it so maybe things will go well and I will have a good vid of the pulls.

KS
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I missed what turbos you were using.
I missed what turbos you were using.
Geezz, I had to look I keep forgetting..they are custom 60mm's built by Brian Bissonette.
Base on the lb/min calculations these should be all in at 1400hp if all is perfect but with my exhaust it won't be perfect so just hoping for another 100hp+..

This is one reason I added the additional pressure sensors so he can calculate the airflow, etc..

ks
Gotcha. Keep us posted.
Finally made it to the dyno today. Not much to report jut yet still fine tuning things. Had to put fresh plugs in which evened out readings on both banks.
Boost is at 36psi during 2nd gear pulls but for some reason fuel pressure isn’t rising 1:1 and is only at 67psi and inj duty cycle is at 95%….aarrg.

To compensate for now we raised base fuel psi to 60psi. Stumped..

Boost is supposed to be on wg springs only at 20psi so not sure why the megasquirt wont lower boost below 30.
We are on lunch break now…

ks
Another Update 3/23/23..

The previous tune on E85 still had the meth injection installed and since the meth pump quit working I decided to remove it completely which required a new tune.

I have recently discovered that this Cobra Iron block is a lot stouter than initially thought. Instead of the 700hp limit back in 2007-ish, people have been pushing this block will into the 1xxxhp range with one gent running the FACTORY Cobra short block (bolts, pistons, rings, etc) and running 7.4's @ 180mph with turbo/auto combo. So seeing how stout this block is I decided to push these turbos farther to see where where their limit was.

2V, twin 60mm, E85, 4R70, Full Length exhaust with 3 mufflers, 39psi boost,= 950hp and a blown head gasket..
Previous best dyno run made [email protected]

Pressure sensors pre/post IC shows that the IC is only losing 1.3psi.
Pressure sensor on exhaust pre-turbo is at a 1.9:1 pressure ratio so there is a limit here.

Tune looked smooth and perfect and nothing can be seen in the log files that may have caused it to go so it may just be too much cylinder pressure as this motor is probably making around 1200-1300hp..

I have it it all on video and log files so when I get a chance I will put something together.

I will simply put new gaskets in it and repair/update a few things then call it good.

ks
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We're you logging EGT along with backpressure? Just curious what temps were doing in relation to pressure.
We're you logging EGT along with backpressure? Just curious what temps were doing in relation to pressure.
No EGT's, we were reading plugs and fine tuning the tune with plug readings.

We added 1/2* of timing in one cylinder then 1* in two others and changed fueling in two cylinders then made a pull with fresh plugs at 36psi and all looked perfect. We then put fresh plugs in, raised boost to 39psi and on the next pull the gasket let loose just as he let out of it at the 6200RPM limit..

ks
It looks like you're getting diminishing returns on increasing the boost to go up 7lbs and only pick up 48 hp?

Also backpressure seems like alot, 2:1 seems acceptable on lower boost levels like 20lbs, but pushing 40lbs of boost, thats nearly 80lbs of backpressure!

Either way nice numbers, better a head gasket than anything else!
It looks like you're getting diminishing returns on increasing the boost to go up 7lbs and only pick up 48 hp?

Also backpressure seems like alot, 2:1 seems acceptable on lower boost levels like 20lbs, but pushing 40lbs of boost, thats nearly 80lbs of backpressure!

Either way nice numbers, better a head gasket than anything else!
Being a "street" combo things are working out really well and those that helped build the selection of parts said things are falling into what they expected. I'm surprised it wasn't above 2:1 at the earlier 30psi with these 60mm turbos so to make 39psi with this exhaust setup and only be just below 2:1 surprised me. Obviously this would not be a good combo for a full race setup but for a powerful street combo this thing makes a lot of power/torque... Full length exhaust, three mufflers so it's quiet, easy street manners, low stall converter, flex fuel.. I really like it, it's perfect for what I want.

I got the log file from the tuner and I gave it a quick look and it made about 950hp before he shut it down at 6100rpm. We decided a 6200rpm limit for the initial runs but he said he let off early but at that same moment is when he saw that a radiator hose let go... which was caused by the head gasket letting go. I actually haven't seen the dyno graph but I will get it when I stop by the shop sometime..

I plan to tear into it tomorrow, but not sure how far I will get...

I'm starting to research head gasket sealing so I expect to learn a lot. I like where it's at right now so I just want to get it to seal as-is, not make more power..

ks
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Yea that sounds like a fun street combo, my guess is youre running into head lift at those levels with that setup.

I dont know how many push a 2v setup to those levels, hopefully there are some answers out there for sealing it up and holding it down.
Yea that sounds like a fun street combo, my guess is youre running into head lift at those levels with that setup.

I dont know how many push a 2v setup to those levels, hopefully there are some answers out there for sealing it up and holding it down.
Yea, there are a few vids that go into detail so there is info out there. Most race applications go with SST orings in the heads with a receiver groove in the block but at this time I don't plan to pull the block just the heads. I did see that one oring choice is to use a copper oring in the heads w/o a receiver groove in the block so this is what I am researching now.

Not too many bozo's in the world build a low RPM street combo and push it as hard as I am so I am in a territory that most people disagree with. Ha, my tuner texted me today telling me that in order to solve my issues just run a larger turbo and larger cam...

This is where being persistent is mandatory. Everyone wants to recommend building a full race motor but I've been there and they are not enjoyable for me on the street. So I try to stick to the engineering and technical details to achieve an engineered result.

ks
Here's a link to the dyno vid but I'm new to creating videos so hopefully it works:

https://www.baselinesuspensions.com/Projects/dynorun1.m4v

ks
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