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My Nightmare 5.0

1748 Views 36 Replies 11 Participants Last post by  Junkyard5.0
Solution: Both O2 sensors needed replacement!

Alright, this is gonna be a lengthy post. I've done some troubleshooting so I'll try to list things I've done in chronological order for ease of reading.

1995 Convertible 5.0L w/ T5, bone stock aside from a cobbled together "catback" exhaust consisting of flex pipe and old glasspacks.

The Problems (before yesterday):
  • Nightmare misfire (cold or at operating temperature)
    • Rough Idle (bounces anywhere from 400 to 800 RPM, occasionally stalls but sometimes recovers before it dies and jumps briefly to 1000 RPM before going down again)
      • Check engine light will sometimes turn on and off (not flashing) at idle and while driving.
        • CEL on: Car runs better.
        • CEL off: Car misfires.
          • This isn't consistent, but happens enough to show a pattern.
    • Constant misfire with anything less than WOT applied
      • Under WOT, car pulls hard and doesn't seem to have a miss. Immediately after, car will run without a miss regardless of where the throttle is. After a minute or two however, vehicle starts misfiring again. Very evident when going from WOT to activating cruise control.
      • Sometimes goosing the throttle a couple of times will let the car run without a miss for a minute or two much like after a WOT pull, but starts misfiring again while cruising.
      • Backfire and popping coming from exhaust when starting from a stop, struggles to get up and go. Also happens on deceleration below 45-50mph.

  • Inconsistent 3-Digit Codes/Failure to Read
    • Not my first rodeo with OBD1, both Ford and GM. Started by using the paper clip jumper method.
      • First KOEO, multiple codes appeared.
        • "113" - IAT sensor is/was high or open
        • "157" - MAF signal is/was low or grounded
        • "158" - MAF signal is/was high or short to power
        • "172" - Oxygen sensor not switching – system is or was lean
        • "173" - Oxygen sensor not switching – system is or was rich
        • "176" - Oxygen sensor not switching – system is or was lean
        • "177" - Oxygen sensor not switching – system is or was rich
        • "542" - Fuel pump open, bad ground or always on
      • Second KOEO a couple days later, the CEL flickered multiple times before giving a "111" code. Code flashed "154", then flashed twice before CEL turned off and remained off.
      • KOEO again, "111" code then gave codes "217", "317", "417", "617" and "717" which, to my knowledge, mostly aren't proper 3 digit codes to begin with. Maybe this was my own mistake by blinking as I was writing down the codes, but after this, attempts to do more KOEO tests failed as the CEL either remained on or would turn off and stay off.
    • Purchased the Innova Ford OBD1 code reader out of desperation
      • KOEO, "111" code then "542" and "543". Code "10" (separation code) then "542" and "543" repeated. No other codes from before were present, and I didn't clear any of the codes to my knowledge.
        • Code "542" - Fuel pump open, bad ground or always on
        • Code "543" - Fuel pump monitor circuit shows no power
          • These codes surprised me as the fuel pump was priming and seemed to be functional, but after scanning these codes, the car had difficulty starting. It wasn't until I held WOT and continued cranking that the car started and idled, then the car started just fine a couple of times after that and still does.
      • KOER, codes "40" and "50" appeared.
        • According to my research, code "40" and "50" show issues with Cylinders #4 and #5.
        • A strange occurrence; during the KOER test, white smoke started coming out of the exhaust from the rear of the vehicle. After disconnecting the code reader, the white smoke stopped. There is no white smoke during engine operation, so I found it strange that it happened during the KOER test.

  • Aftermarket alarm system
    • There's a six pin port with a non-stop flashing red light installed underneath the steering wheel column trim, which has wires connecting to a larger black box underneath the steering column. There is a thick gauge red wire and black wire coming out of this box, but the box itself has no markings to identify itself aside from a serial number that doesn't reveal anything after searching on Google.
    • It's not for keyless entry to my knowledge, the vehicle didn't come with a fob for it.
      • I believe, but cannot confirm, that the alarm system is bypassed as of now. The wiring runs deep into the column/dash, and it'll require a day of disassembly to see where it all leads.

  • Yesterday/Fuel Pump Failure
    • Yesterday, after I left work, the car would crank but wouldn’t start. Pulling codes gave me “542”, so I assumed the fuel pump was dead and gone. Started to get desperate as I have a 1+ hour commute back home from work and wasn’t looking forward to the tow charges. I did some research, and a stray forum post suggested the following:
      • “Have you tried hitting the gas tank with a rubber mallet a few times?”
    • To my surprise, after the third or fourth hit during KOEO, the fuel pump started to prime. Jumped in, started the car, and I hit the road. Unfortunately, the “nightmare misfire” became even worse. Unless I feathered the throttle, or pushed it wide open, the car would backfire, pop, miss, etc. severely. Luckily I got to the highway, went into 5th and was able to limp it home.
    • After returning home, I turned it off and then tried KOEO to try and read codes. The fuel pump primed with no issue, but my scanner wouldn’t connect to the PCM. Tried the paperclip method, and I got a “111” code before it flashed “13” and then the fuel pump primed again, which turned off the CEL.
      • It seems like the fuel pump wants to prime in 30 second or less intervals, which is interrupting the code reading process. So I can’t pull codes from the vehicle anymore.
Conclusion:

This car hasn't been taken care of. Lots of broken tabs on sensor pigtails, the interior is shot, the shifter itself is duct taped together along with the rear window of the convertible top, and the air filter was removed in lieu of using mesh wire hose clamped to the MAF housing.

So I'm inclined to believe that these issues are arising from the IAT, MAF, O2 sensors and the fuel pump. A few notes, the MAF appears to have been replaced at some point as there is a peeling sticker on the MAF itself that says, "Remanufactured" on it. I wouldn't be surprised if these issues were present with the previous owner, but I'm open to purchasing a new (not reman) MAF as I've already tried cleaning this one out.

Another thing I've noticed is that the electric fan comes on when the vehicle's key is turned on, and stays on nonstop. I've read that this could be a problem with the ECT, and some articles/forum posts have suggested that a faulty ECT could cause some of the issues I'm facing here.

I'm also a bit nervous about the alarm system, and have it in the back of my mind that it may be causing some of my issues with drivability. I have very little alarm/security system experience, so I'm not exactly eager to go digging into it's wiring or attempting to remove it.

I got the car for dirt cheap, so I'm not at the "this sounds like a lemon, get rid of it" stage just yet. I'd rather bite the bullet and do an EFI to Carb conversion and run the powertrain standalone from the body harness and PCM before I'd sell/scrap it. Plus it's a Rebuilt Salvage title anyhow, resale value is pointless to consider.

So, how would you guys proceed?
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inspection of the bulk head connector first. get a pinout, check for proper power and ground at the ecm. verify you have the correct injectors and maf installed.

you have multiple sensors being flagged, which if the connections, power and grounds are good, would point me towards an ecm
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I agree with the inconsistent code readings pointing to an eec possibly. There anyone near you who might have an sn95 you can swap the eec with to test?
also i believe the fuel pump is controlled by the ccrm along with the fans. might look at that pos also lol.
inspection of the bulk head connector first. get a pinout, check for proper power and ground at the ecm. verify you have the correct injectors and maf installed.
Best way to verify the correct injectors? They're yellow, I know that much by visual inspection. As far as the MAF goes, it has the same housing and connector style as others I've found at parts stores but don't have the part number readily available. Can and will get that info soon though.

I agree with the inconsistent code readings pointing to an eec possibly. There anyone near you who might have an sn95 you can swap the eec with to test?
That's something that I was worried about, and another reason why I was considering the EFI to Carb route. From what I can tell, used and reman units run roughly $400 and up. I live in a remote area, so no luck on finding someone to let me swap in their ECM.

I'm assuming you meant Megasquirt3, which I found and considered the MS2PnP as I was doing research. I like the idea of having tunability and a live view of the engine operation, so I'm not against this route either if the ECM is revealed to be faulty. Double the price of an original ECM, but well worth it for the features IMO.

also i believe the fuel pump is controlled by the ccrm along with the fans. might look at that pos also lol.
If the CCRM controls the fans as well, I would be willing to wager that it might be causing some of my issues considering the fans stay on as soon as the key is turned on, regardless of the car's temperature. Once I check the power/ground on the ECM, I'll check the CCRM afterwards.

I appreciate everyone's input so far, will report back with results!
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Pull that EEC and inspect all caps for leaks/swelling. My guess is bad eec. Sucks chasing inconsistent stuff like that.
Best way to verify the correct injectors? They're yellow, I know that much by visual inspection. As far as the MAF goes, it has the same housing and connector style as others I've found at parts stores but don't have the part number readily available. Can and will get that info soon though.



That's something that I was worried about, and another reason why I was considering the EFI to Carb route. From what I can tell, used and reman units run roughly $400 and up. I live in a remote area, so no luck on finding someone to let me swap in their ECM.



I'm assuming you meant Megasquirt3, which I found and considered the MS2PnP as I was doing research. I like the idea of having tunability and a live view of the engine operation, so I'm not against this route either if the ECM is revealed to be faulty. Double the price of an original ECM, but well worth it for the features IMO.



If the CCRM controls the fans as well, I would be willing to wager that it might be causing some of my issues considering the fans stay on as soon as the key is turned on, regardless of the car's temperature. Once I check the power/ground on the ECM, I'll check the CCRM afterwards.

I appreciate everyone's input so far, will report back with results!
if the injectors are yellow and appear to have a ford number on them i would say they were stock.
you might have luck for an ecm at prestige mustang or mps auto salvage.
Local computer repair service can also replace the caps/inspect the EEC.
Decided to pull the computer and open it up. I don't see anything out of the ordinary, but I could be missing something. Click on the thumbnail below and it'll open the full resolution picture:

Passive circuit component Circuit component Green Hardware programmer Electronic component
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Personally, sounds like a bad fuel pump to me. Just because you hear it prime doesn’t mean you have the correct pressure at the rail. You could also have other issues along with that, but you can’t tell until you clear up the misfire.

a misfire can cause lean or rich codes. The O2’s read oxygen content in the exhaust, and if you didn’t have any fuel or spark, you wouldn’t burn any oxygen, and it would read lean.

put a fuel pressure gauge on it and verify that you have 39psi with the vacuum reference removed. Could be the pump, could be the regulator, could be the sock or a split hose in the tank.

the only thing pointing to a bad EEC is the cooling fan running constantly, BUT that can also be caused by the ECT or CCRM. Usually a bad EEC won’t allow code retrieval or it won’t start/ runs pig rich with black smoke.

one step at a time with good troubleshooting.

carb swapping costs more than fixing the problem. Part out the car over carb swap.
Personally, sounds like a bad fuel pump to me.
You might be correct.


So an update. Grabbed a fuel pressure gauge and tested some stuff.

KOEO goes to about 31psi

KOER goes to about 35psi, and the car will idle normally for a minute or two. After a bit, the RPMs dip and the pressure on the fuel rail started rising to near 40psi, when it dipped to 200 RPM and the car started backfiring and popping out of the exhaust.

Considering I had to hit the tank with a rubber mallet to get the fuel pump to even prime during a no start, I’m willing to bet the pump itself is on its way out. I’m gonna grab a fuel pump and filter from O’ Reilly’s and drop the tank this weekend to replace it.
Hand Gesture Finger Wood Thumb

Also, here’s the rotor inside the distributor. Not only was it chewed up at the end, the points inside the distributor were as well. Went ahead and replaced it while I was there.
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These 94-95’s are also known that with high miles, the magnetic pickup in the distributor comes apart or fails, thus the resulting timing issues, idle issues or drivability issues… because once it gets to its worse point, the car will just die while in mid drive and won’t start again. Think of the 94-95 distributor as the prior 86-93 TFI module common failures - sure, it looks great from the outside, but is failing on the inside…

I don’t think it’s your EEC either - not ALL 94/95 EEC’s are problematic or have bad caps.

You’ve already found 1 major issue and that is the fuel pump. Your extracted codes even proved it. Just because you did the “fuel tank tap” doesn’t mean the fuel pump is now all fine and dandy. Sure you’re going to get possibly correct fuel pressure at the rail IF the pump is running…but if it crapped out 1x, it’s going to do it again - they don’t last forever. So after you replace the fuel pump, clear all codes then go for a drive.

I didn’t see it mentioned - however I see you have since replaced the cap & rotor… but have you even pulled the plugs to see/read them, if so, any pics to share of them? Have you ohm’d out the spark plug wires yet? Plug wires also do not last forever and again plug wires can look great from the outside, but the cores of the wires do deteriorate and it’s possible too that if the prior owner ever did plugs they could have separated or damaged the wire at the plug boots….

If after replacing fuel pump, checking plugs/wires and you’re still experiencing drivability issues, replace the dizzy with another stock unit (NOT MSD).
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a fuel pressure tester and inspection of all ignition components should have been the first thing done.
Also check the inside of the dizzy for any excessive wear, side to side movement.
The inside of the cap would be worn uneven or possibly cracked when the dizzy bushings go out.

There are ways to test the PIP, which could very possibly be bad as well. You can get a motorcraft replacement from rockauto.
I have had other brands fail directly out of the box.
Alright, got a lot done but didn’t get far. Here’s the update:

I replaced the fuel pump, MAF (new, not reman), and ignition coil since I was at the parts store.

First start, car idled great. Went for a drive, did well for the first few minutes then went back to having the nightmare misfire.

Took it back home and let it idle, and a new symptom appeared. Check engine light came on, car idled around 750 RPMs, then suddenly the car hesitated (at idle mind you), CEL went off, then RPMs jumped to 1200 before settling to 800 as if I just started the car. Check engine light came back on, and the symptom repeated.

Checked the CEL using my reader, and the code it gave me was “541” which I cannot find any information on.

I could use some additional information on reading the ohms on the spark plugs as I’ve never done that before. Same with probing the EEC for power and ground. I’ve read that I’d need a breakout box to do that, but it looks like that’s a hard to come by tool.

I’m exhausted for the day, but I’ll jump back into it tomorrow.
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New update:

After leaving the car sitting for an hour, it will no longer start. Cranks but no start. Checked the fuel pressure at the rail and there is none, fuel pump isn’t priming. Code now is “543”

Completely stumped.
Visual inspections on the ECU is a hit or miss situation. From the things you describe and the codes changing the ECU needs R&R. They repair 94-95 ECU as well even though add below for A9L A9P etc.

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