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Discussion Starter #1
I'm looking for help with a no spark situation. I'm using the MS2 with the v3.57 board on a 93 Mustang with a 9.5 Windsor.

Background info: (Long, but relevant)

I got this MS2 from a guy that had it when he bought his current race car, and pulled it in favour of his current gold box (LS swap).

Thinking this would be a great opportunity and wanting to learn how to tune my own car as oppose to having someone dyno-tune the stock A9L with SCT chip then being limited to that tune. I purchased this MS2 (non PNP), and he was nice enough to drive the almost 1.5hr drive to help me install and fire the car.

Once installed, we attempted to start the car in order to set the timing in MS. The car stumbled at first (never did start) and we entered into a no spark situation. We ohm'ed the harness and double checked everything to ensure we were getting signal and power through the harness which all checked out OK.

We pulled the SPOUT OUT and the car starts, but we were unable to control timing with the MS as it was simply running off of base timing. We attempt to put the SPOUT IN and it immediately dies, no spark. I re-installed the A9L just to check if the car still runs, and it car fires right up and runs flawless. We install the MS2 and right back to no spark. This went on for some time. Being new to MS and quickly running well past my knowledge on MS, we decided to contact DIYAutoTune and sent the box to be tested.

Matt explained there were some setting issues and also confirmed when the box was received there wasn't spark output, but was sent back with spark output and everything checked out on Jimstim. I got the box back and installed it. It fired up and idled for 30secs, then went right back into the no spark as before. I re-installed the A9L and it runs without issue.

note* All the gauges on TS were calibrated and reading sensibly. I am using the stock TFI ignition system.


I ran across a thread (7 yrs old) where someone was having the exact same problem as described above. He installed an older firmware (v2.889) and everything worked with spout in and out. But once the MSExtra firmware was flashed, it was back to no spark with SPOUT IN. I referenced this thread to Matt late on Friday, and I'm awaiting his input and knowledge before trying anything further. Below is a link to that thread.

http://forums.corral.net/forums/megasquirt/1213884-trigger-offset.html

Anyone else run into this issue? Any help would be truly appreciated.

Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Make sure your MSQ is set for JS10 as spark output A.
Matt, I sent you an email with my MSQ tune and a data log file while attempting to start it today. Spent pretty much all day with it with the same results. No spark with SPOUT IN. We get Spark with SPOUT UNPLUGGED but unable to control timing though TS (base timing only). I ensured spark output was set to JS10 as you'll see in the MSQ.

Loaded up the latest firmware version, and even tried some older MS Extra versions with the same results. Tried starting a new project, no change. Installed the A9L after all our attempts, and it fires right up. I'm stumped.
 

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Why wasn't there spark output before? Was something repaired, or was it only problems with settings?

Also with the key on, engine off, SPOUT connected, TFI disconnected, what voltage do you measure between the SPOUT wire and ground?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Why wasn't there spark output before? Was something repaired, or was it only problems with settings? Also with the key on, engine off, SPOUT connected, TFI disconnected, what voltage do you measure between the SPOUT wire and ground?

I was told it was a settings issue before. I asked this exact question as well, quote: "This looks like it was just a settings issue; I have changed a couple settings and it now supplies a spark output signal on a bench test". "Spark output was set to D14 and the box was built to use JS10". Although I thought we tried both JS10 and D14 spark output settings in our initial attempts to get it started prior to sending it to be tested, I was happy to hear it had spark output at this point.

When I installed it upon return from testing, it definitely did have spark output. if I remember correctly I was seeing all three LED lights illuminated while it was idling, but it was very short lived. Now only one of the three LED lights illuminate while attempting to start. Unfortunately I can't tell you which one it was, because the guy I got it from who has been helping me with it including all afternoon yesterday, took it back with him to hook it up to one of his buddies mustangs to see if it fires.

When I get the unit back I will take these readings again. It was about a month ago when we first did our continuity and readings to the pins and harness. We even tried a brand new TFI module that I always keep in the glove box. I appreciate you looking in, you seem to be one of the few always attempting to help folks out with this stuff. Thanks
 

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Okay sounds good, I'll wait and see how it goes.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
The fella that I got this from has agreed to a full refund. Talking to Matt via email, I think the next step is to get this on a stimulator to test the board again, which I don't have. It sucks to walk away from the unit without a resolution.

Thanks seijirou for taking the time to look in and offer your help, along with Blown88GT.
 

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A basic stimulator is all you need for what you're trying to do, and they're pretty affordable. Even if you're considering a different megasquirt a stimulator is worth having. I'd encourage you to go ahead and get one, then see what it shows on this megasquirt before giving up on it.
 

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Have you tried the test mode through TunerStudio? It allows you to manually control all the outputs like spark and injection. You could set the coil output to pulse at xHz while you probe the outputs for signal.

The "it ran for 30sec and then lost spark again" makes me wonder if the coil driver got cooked due to excessive dwell or an inverted signal or something. I'm confident it can be fixed though.

You should see the frankenboxes I made out of a clusterf--- of cheap parts I got off fleaBay some years ago. Ended up with the MSII v3.0 in my Pinto and two other MSI v3.0s(and spare parts galore).

And yes, get a stim if you're going to own a MegaSquirt.
 

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Bringing this back from the dead. I also bought a used MS2 3.57 with the exact same issue. Car will start and run with the spout out but has no spark spout in. If you let it set over night it have a few jolts on first spin over but nothing past that. Car is a 91 5.0 LX, 347, TFI based ignition, stock harness with a jumper from the MS2 to it. I have checked all resisitors, jumpers, etc inside the box and they all look fine. Settings all look good to me as well. Following this thread I checked voltage at the SPOUT with KOEO, TFI unhooked. I have 12.2V or battery voltage. I am assuming this is incorrect?

Thanks in advance for any and all help.
 

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12v on that wire is correct. When the megasquirt is commanding the TFI to fire the coil, it will drop this to ground (If you didn't have 12v on this wire, the coil would simply fire on base timing as if the SPOUT was disconnected).

My hunch is this drop to ground signal to fire the coil isn't happening.

Verify you have everything in place, including the config settings, identified on page 106 of the hardware manual here. http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/MS2V357_Hardware-3.4.pdf
 

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Mine has 12V engine off, so I started it and measured again since the PCM duty cycles ground to make the coil fire I would expect to see a lower voltage with the DVOM since we have ground and 12V in a waveform. I measured the voltage again and it was around 7.7V which I would assume would be close to right. Now here comes the interesting part. I switched my DVOM to ohms and measured across the spout connector with the engine running and it reads nothing as I would assume it would, but the engine revs up like a stock PCM car when you install the spout. So I grabbed my timing light and when I jumper the spout connector with my DVOM the timing changes and the engine runs better. Is there anyway I need a resistor inline with this??
 

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Also on page 106 there are these set of instructions...


Set the mainboard as per section 5.2.4
Make the following modifications:
a) Solder two wires to a 330R resistor and heatshrink.
b) Solder one of the wires to CPU pin 7 on the underside of the board.
c) Solder the other wire to IGBTin.
d) Ensure Q16 is fitted
e) Solder two wires to a 1k resistor and heatshrink.
f) Solder one of the wires to S12 (near the DB37 connector.)
g) Solder the other wire to the middle pin of Q16

Since my PCM was a preassembled setup for a 5.0 Mustang is all this necessary? I opened mine up and I have a wire from JS10 to IGBTin. Q16 is filled and no wire from the middle terminal to S12.... I assumed the internal work was done since it was a pre-set deal.
 

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Just a thought... what about a diode in place of the spout connector? My DVOM has a diode inside it and when its hooked up, it works. Fly back voltage? The distributor side of the spout connector has around 4 volts with key on, engine running.
 

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Forgive me for skipping some questions because I think you may have already gotten to the problem. No resistor or diode is needed in place of the spout plug. The spout plug is just a fancy jumper wire, just a way to break that wire intentionally.

You should get the same voltage measurement anywhere on that wire with the plug in, if not something is wrong with the wire or plug. You're describing an average of 7v in one place but 4v in a different place and that shouldn't happen. In your case since it works correctly when you substitute something else for the spout plug, I think you have a bad spout plug. Perhaps there's corrosion or bent terminals in the socket or in the plug.

To go straight to verification of the theory I would leave the spout plug out and get a temporary piece of wire running directly from the ecu pin 36 to TFI pin 5. Verify you have 12v on that wire key on, and then if it all works exactly as it should you can either make that replacement wire permanent or find and fix the problem with your original spout wire.
 

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Forgive me for skipping some questions because I think you may have already gotten to the problem. No resistor or diode is needed in place of the spout plug. The spout plug is just a fancy jumper wire, just a way to break that wire intentionally.

You should get the same voltage measurement anywhere on that wire with the plug in, if not something is wrong with the wire or plug. You're describing an average of 7v in one place but 4v in a different place and that shouldn't happen. In your case since it works correctly when you substitute something else for the spout plug, I think you have a bad spout plug. Perhaps there's corrosion or bent terminals in the socket or in the plug.

To go straight to verification of the theory I would leave the spout plug out and get a temporary piece of wire running directly from the ecu pin 36 to TFI pin 5. Verify you have 12v on that wire key on, and then if it all works exactly as it should you can either make that replacement wire permanent or find and fix the problem with your original spout wire.
I agree about the spout being a removable jumper. I guess I worded my response a little off. I meant with the key on, engine running I measured voltage on both sides of the spout connector in the harness, with the spout removed. PCM side has 7.7 volts and from the distributor or TFI side it has 4.6 volts. When I install the black DVOM lead into the PCM side and the red DVOM lead into the distributor side of the harness it seems to work correctly. Making the DVOM my "jumper". I have multiple cars and parts at my disposal and Ive tried 2 other spouts and even ohm'd them all with, with the same results. With that said I tried a diode today and I get the same results as the spout. Installed one way it only runs with base timing, installed the opposite the engine stalls. Had to feed my curiosity.

Being that the system works properly with a stock PCM in place I am leaning towards a jumper harness issue or a hardware issue. I updated the firmware in the MS2 last night from 2.1.0 to 3.4.0( I think on that last one, I know it was 2.1.0 before) and had someone else make me a base tune but it did not change my no start with spout in issue.
 

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I agree about the spout being a removable jumper. I guess I worded my response a little off. I meant with the key on, engine running I measured voltage on both sides of the spout connector in the harness, with the spout removed. PCM side has 7.7 volts and from the distributor or TFI side it has 4.6 volts. When I install the black DVOM lead into the PCM side and the red DVOM lead into the distributor side of the harness it seems to work correctly. Making the DVOM my "jumper". I have multiple cars and parts at my disposal and Ive tried 2 other spouts and even ohm'd them all with, with the same results. With that said I tried a diode today and I get the same results as the spout. Installed one way it only runs with base timing, installed the opposite the engine stalls. Had to feed my curiosity.

Being that the system works properly with a stock PCM in place I am leaning towards a jumper harness issue or a hardware issue. I updated the firmware in the MS2 last night from 2.1.0 to 3.4.0( I think on that last one, I know it was 2.1.0 before) and had someone else make me a base tune but it did not change my no start with spout in issue.
Okay gotcha. So I don't think you should see any voltage on the SPOUT wire, downstream of the removed spout plug, engine running or not, but I don't know that for certain. Do you have any way to verify this independently on a different TFI vehicle? Unfortunately I just moved so I don't know anybody and don't own an example myself. Is there only voltage here running or do you see voltage KOEO too?

That said, it's a fair argument that timing control works fine on the stock ECU so you'd think this can be ignored (though I'm really not so sure).

Using test methods you're already doing and using megasquirt to run the car with the spout plug out. Check the voltage at the spout plug ECU side with the fixed dwell set to 0% and again set at 100%. Megasquirt may need a power cycle between these changes. At 0% you should measure battery voltage, and at 100% you should measure ground.

I think this is a reasonable overall spark output hardware and config test.
 

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