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Discussion Starter #1
do the fuel injected 460 heads have the same intake pattern as the older 460 heads ?
 

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how old ....is old....????


...WHAT are you trying to do....???
 

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Discussion Starter #3
how old ....is old....????


...WHAT are you trying to do....???
put a stock 460 motor from a 1995 truck into my car for backet racing..the motor is fuel injected but i want to put a carb intake on it, just wanted to know ahead of time if the carb intake will fit
 

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are the bolts for the valve spring covers in the center / middle of cover / head...or are they on the outer perimiter , same as a 302....????
 

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1995 460 heads are going to be fuelie heads. ... flowing E7 casting with 2.19" intake valve. Head has not been decked which will pick up 7 cfm at the higher lifts.

Flow rate for the casting alone.

.200" / 152
.300" / 215
.400" / 263
.500" / 296
.600" / 318
.700" / 331
.800" / 343

Flow rates for casting with intake attached and pad radius:

upper runner / lower runner / unported intake lower runner / converted victor #1 runner

.200" / 149 / 153 / 153 / 155
.300" / 196 / 203 / 190 / 218
.400" / 230 / 238 / 222 / 267
.500" / 251 / 261 / 240 / 298
.600" / 265 / 273 / 250 / 313
.700" / 271 / 283 / 255 / 327
.800" / 280 / 290 / 259 / 339


A standard edelbrock performer intake blows 270 cfm max on the short runner and 255 max on the corner runners. on a comparable dove head max flow rates attached are in the 240 to 255 range depending on corner and or upper and lower. Most bbf dual planes flow better on the lower runners when on the cylinder head casting.

The good runners on the stealth and or rpm flow 323 ish low runner and 300 high runner max on a comparable dove casting with large valves. The victor in in the 340's.


All and all I would venture to say that while the fuelie intake is a restriction it is not too bad for a factory intake and will support good torque & hp with a carb adapter or properly set up EFI...


copied from BBF forum

Scotty J. "EMC 2006" 3rd place finisher
Re in"Car"nation High Performance
TFS streets, P-51's, ported iron, Scat, Eagle etc.
253-988-6648
http://reincarnation-automotive.com
10610 Golden Given RD. #2
Tacoma, WA. 98445
 

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Discussion Starter #6
1995 460 heads are going to be fuelie heads. ... flowing E7 casting with 2.19" intake valve. Head has not been decked which will pick up 7 cfm at the higher lifts.

Flow rate for the casting alone.

.200" / 152
.300" / 215
.400" / 263
.500" / 296
.600" / 318
.700" / 331
.800" / 343

Flow rates for casting with intake attached and pad radius:

upper runner / lower runner / unported intake lower runner / converted victor #1 runner

.200" / 149 / 153 / 153 / 155
.300" / 196 / 203 / 190 / 218
.400" / 230 / 238 / 222 / 267
.500" / 251 / 261 / 240 / 298
.600" / 265 / 273 / 250 / 313
.700" / 271 / 283 / 255 / 327
.800" / 280 / 290 / 259 / 339


A standard edelbrock performer intake blows 270 cfm max on the short runner and 255 max on the corner runners. on a comparable dove head max flow rates attached are in the 240 to 255 range depending on corner and or upper and lower. Most bbf dual planes flow better on the lower runners when on the cylinder head casting.

The good runners on the stealth and or rpm flow 323 ish low runner and 300 high runner max on a comparable dove casting with large valves. The victor in in the 340's.


All and all I would venture to say that while the fuelie intake is a restriction it is not too bad for a factory intake and will support good torque & hp with a carb adapter or properly set up EFI...


copied from BBF forum

Scotty J. "EMC 2006" 3rd place finisher
Re in"Car"nation High Performance
TFS streets, P-51's, ported iron, Scat, Eagle etc.
253-988-6648
http://reincarnation-automotive.com
10610 Golden Given RD. #2
Tacoma, WA. 98445
what does that have to do with stock head bolt pattern on A newer 460
 

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NO, An early model 460 intake will not match to the port shape and height of the 460 fuelie heads. THe ports are higher in the head and the ports are much narrower. Sorry, I thought the post and the port information gave you the idea that A and B didn't match up
 

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YUP.


...the bolt location IN center or as like older traditional around the outside kinda relates to the year vintage...


once again, WHAT are you trying to do..?????


a injected head is totally different than a traditional head.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
i am build a nice bracket car but it will not be done till next season, so i am putting a cheap bracket cat for this year, i got a killer deal on a complete 460 for a early 90's ford truck with a 460, but i want to put a carb on it...ok..found out, the motor is from a 1987 truck..
 

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The last year of the carbed 460 is 1985 I believe, if this thing has fuel injection, then it has the redesigned heads and intake. You can get an adaptor plate to put a carb on the 460 EFI lower, just tap and plug the injector bung holes with pipe plugs.

Far from premium performance, but the EFI lower is about the same as an edelbrock performer intake, the heads are great as is with lower RPM charge velocity, not bad with some port work to increase the upper RPM capability. They take some major work to even port match out to a conventional carb intake with port plates to raise the early style intake high enough to line up. Have to fill the end seals, its about a 1/4 inch raise required.

Exhaust is ok.

Either that, or use the short block and pull the upper stuff off and get something you intend to use in the futor, or interum.
 

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do the fuel injected 460 heads have the same intake pattern as the older 460 heads?
The intake and exhaust bolt patterns are the same, meaning that technically the carbed intake and exhaust manfiold bolt holes align to the FI head bolt patters and visa versa,

BUT,

the port configurations are entirely different between the two types of top ends and so the fit is incorrect and non-functional. And so normally, when one swaps parts between 460-carbed and 460FI engines, he swap the entire top end as a set.

At this time, nobody makes an aluminum intake manifold that fits the 460 FI engines, but you can purchase a carb adaptor for the OEM aluminum FI intake. Once ported, the intakes work pretty well with the ported FI heads.


i am build a nice bracket car...i got a killer deal on a complete 460 for a early 90's ford truck with a 460, but i want to put a carb on it...ok..found out, the motor is from a 1987 truck..
1987 is the last year of the carbed 460's. Are you sure it's a 1987? Because 1988 is FI. The 1988 and up 460's have the valve cover bolts in the center of the valve covers (FI), while the earlier 460's have them around the perimeter of the valve covers (carbed).

Paul
 

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... a stock 460 motor from a 1995 truck into my car for backet racing..the motor is fuel injected but i want to put a carb intake on it, just wanted to know ahead of time if the carb intake will fit
That won't work, but you can port the FI intake and install a carb adaptor from Price Motorsports, Part No. CS-460EFI:





www.pricemotorsport.com/

Paul
 

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Discussion Starter #13
just goin off what my buddy said it was..it is at his house..still in the truck..it may be a late 87 early 88..either way it is injection...i will just buy that adapter or make one
 

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just as your own sig says...

you may spend a lifetime...." screwing around with poor setup parts..." ...just to see if you can make a difference..


for someone like you, you are just wasting time....

you should use the block and such,....but install a tried and proven set of heads and common regular carby type intake manifold.....
beyond some few basic additional power changes,..
you will be restricted to just a few additions, and still have the basic airflow restriction...
and then when you want more power than that, everything else will have to be changed anyways...
so,
why dont you just change it first so that you do not have to buy all again....
 

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ok not trying to jack the thread. but will an 70 block work for a 97 block replacement. can i use the 97 heads and intake and brackets on the 70 block?
 

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...will an 70 block work for a 97 block replacement?
Will the 1970 BLOCK work with all the engine parts from the the 1997 engine? Yes, meaning that the entire 1997 rotating assembly may be instlled into the 1970 block, and all the other parts that make up the shortblock (timing cover, timing chain, oil pump, etc.) are a direct fit, except that a few oil pan bolts F&R are different sizes....which is no biggie just go to your hardware store.

can i use the 97 heads and intake and brackets on the 70 block?
This is a different question than the one above, and the answer gets tricky. Will the 1997 heads and intake and all accessory brackets fit the 1970-era shortblock? Well, the 1997 top end will bolt to the 1970 shortblock, BUT the 1970 engine is internally balanced, while the 1997 engine is externally balanced. Therefore, you must have a COMPLETE 1970 shortblock, because your 1997 external balance flexplate/flywheel/crankshaft spacer will not work correctly with the 1970 internally balanced crankshaft which uses a zero-balanced flexplate/flywheel/crankshaft spacer. (You may run either an internal balanced engine or external balanced engine in your F250, etc, but you cannot mix parts between the two rotating assemblies.)

Therefore, if you want a painless way to install a new shortblock under your FI top end, you should look for a 1979-up 460 shortblock, as the 1979-up 460's were all externally balanced, all used the same rotating assembly, the same D9TE-AB cylinder block, etc.

There are other subtle differences between the 1990's and 1970's engines, but nothing that prevents you from doing the swap.

Paul

p.s. While the external balance rotating assemblies DO fit the early-style blocks, the internal balance rotating assemblies DO NOT fit the late-style blocks.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
just as your own sig says...

you may spend a lifetime...." screwing around with poor setup parts..." ...just to see if you can make a difference..


for someone like you, you are just wasting time....

you should use the block and such,....but install a tried and proven set of heads and common regular carby type intake manifold.....
beyond some few basic additional power changes,..
you will be restricted to just a few additions, and still have the basic airflow restriction...
and then when you want more power than that, everything else will have to be changed anyways...
so,
why dont you just change it first so that you do not have to buy all again....
at this time and on this build i am not goin to spend a lot of $$$ again on a car, i want to bracket race , even in both trophy 1 and 2 there is a et break , i pretty much got a good running 460-tranny and parts for next to nothing to put in a old junker i have..83 4door mercury zephyr..14.00 or faster or slower i diont care, it has at least run a 25.00 or so ..lol..i alrerdy have a tach..all ectronics..carb..etc..when its done i will have less then 1000.00 in the whiole car, will it be a 12 sec car..seriouly dont think so, it will not look as clean and good as my 84 stang did, i am bracket racing ..thanks..
 

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the bolt locations may be the same...but the port sealing issues are just as a 2 barell cleveland head as compared to a 4 Barrell cleveland head.....
ports do not seal properly....

early traditional 429/460 head as compared to a late 460 injected head... ......SAME DEAL....

you have spent the time to ask the RIGHT people,

you have the correct answers,

so there is no readson to do a hack job and do it WRONG....
 

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Discussion Starter #19
the bolt locations may be the same...but the port sealing issues are just as a 2 barell cleveland head as compared to a 4 Barrell cleveland head.....
ports do not seal properly....

early traditional 429/460 head as compared to a late 460 injected head... ......SAME DEAL....

you have spent the time to ask the RIGHT people,

you have the correct answers,

so there is no readson to do a hack job and do it WRONG....
what am i doing wrong ? the head are not coming off, i am buigna adapter to run a carb on it with the intake that is already on it..
 

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what am i doing wrong ? the head are not coming off, i am buigna adapter to run a carb on it with the intake that is already on it..
The issue, if there is one, is that the E7 head doesn't work that great unless you port the bejesus out of it. Only after you port it is it then comparable to the old D0VE 429 head in terms of port flow....it's not a bad head, so to speak.

My issue is that by using this motor....it's pointless, really. The heads and intake manifold, even with the adapter....it's just a low-end grunt motor, with the adapter produced to get around the original EFI. If you have the resources to port the heads and intake, in addition to getting a decent camshaft for it...then it might work out okay. However, you will run into problems with the swap headers, as if I remember correctly, the exhaust ports are also raised on these heads, which may cause fitment problems.

I'm thinking that if you absolutely have to have a big block, I would spend some time looking around for someone's earlier-vintage built-up project. In this economy, I've seen quite a few of these engines being practically given away...

One other note: A much lighter, mildly-built 351W might be a better way to go...
 
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