Understood. I'll go ahead and replace with the same FelPro gaskets we discussed previously (1134's). Thanks for the input!
Input on 363ci Fueling Issue - Headgasket checked out
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I think the tuner appears to be misunderstanding or purposely avoiding that detonation was responsible for blowing the gasket, not boost levels.
He acknowledged it was detonation that caused it so I don't think he was avoiding the issue, but, I also can't say "your tune blew my car up" as if we hadn't lost pressure we were still at a high 10-Low 11 AFR, and only 12 degrees timing, so the next step would have been to dial the boost back. As far as the boost level goes, he didn't tell me "turn it up to 17", it just happened to hit that as we were trying to dial in the boost controller and I was the one turning the knob so in reality I have to take the blame for that part of things. Not my first rodeo with manual boost controllers, had one on my built Supra, but this one just reacted much more quickly than others I've used. If you've ever played with one of the manual controllers, it goes from 3-4 full turns doing hardly anything (for instance I think I turned it 6 times to go from 6lbs-7lbs) to then starting to engage the spring in the controller much more rapidly and I went from 10psi to 17psi in about 2 turns. Hindsight being 20/20, I should have just made pull after pull at 1 turn at the time but thought we were still in the low spring preload area on the controller as it was still backed way off the "max boost" point. We were also really tuning the car to what it wanted and not dead set on say 14psi, that was kind of the "lots of guys with a similar build land about this boost level" so we had some sort of reference. The main tuning was using the data logging and pulling plugs between runs to watch the timing marks on them.
FWIW I just got off the phone with Holley. The guy was friendly but they didn't really have any answers outside of recommending to throw an amp loop on the power feed to see if the pump was pulling higher amperage under load. Of course that's basically a null point now as I don't have a functioning car. He said at my power level I should have been within the range of that pump safely though and shouldn't have been pulling more than 20amps at 60psi. They offered to have me send it in and test it themselves though I don't think that will really show my anything but who knows. I'm still hesitant to use this pump again so I think the next step will be to pony up the cash for a better tank and pump. BBRC recommended a Magnafuel 625, Magnafuel 750, or a Weldon 1100 (all in-tank style) for a street car with my power levels in mind. I don't have any experience with those style of pumps so if those aren't a decent pump for a street car I'm open to being educated.
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4,280 Posts
It sucks for sure. Most of us have similair stories.
The felpro mls gasket isn't the problem. I ran them on my last single turbo setup for 10 years. Never hurt them. Ran as much as 19lbs. Had a pass at 15:1 a/f (on e85) when my alt went out. Keep on going right up to the day I tore the engine down.
Currently running cometics. They have seen 30+ lbs on my current engine. All good, so far.
Sounds like you need to walk away for a few days, too let the frustration wear off. I'm sure you will be back at it. Keep us in the loop how you make out on the fuel pump.
The felpro mls gasket isn't the problem. I ran them on my last single turbo setup for 10 years. Never hurt them. Ran as much as 19lbs. Had a pass at 15:1 a/f (on e85) when my alt went out. Keep on going right up to the day I tore the engine down.
Currently running cometics. They have seen 30+ lbs on my current engine. All good, so far.
Sounds like you need to walk away for a few days, too let the frustration wear off. I'm sure you will be back at it. Keep us in the loop how you make out on the fuel pump.
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4,776 Posts
I will continue to post this link for anyone running pump gas and turbos:
If it was detonating this system would have heard it and probably shut the motor down before damage happened.
ks
If it was detonating this system would have heard it and probably shut the motor down before damage happened.
ks
Yea, usually I hop right on things as I hate to see them sit but this time I got the car back home in the garage and just walked away from it. I’m going to get the garage cleaned up and organized this week and then maybe come back to it next weekend and just get the process slowly started/not put myself under the gun. I’m also going to spend some time looking at different tank/pump setups and get an idea of where I want to head (open to suggestions). On my Supra I ran dual Walbro’s but it looks like I’d need to go to a Cobra tank on this car for that and by the time I’m done with that, and a dual pump hanger, and sending unit, I’m basically at the same cost as doing one of the BBRC 10-bolt style tanks with a Weldon or similar which seems like a more robust setup. I need to do more research on what the best setup for my application is though. I’ve never run an external pump setup so I’m more comfortable with an in-tank style on a street car, but maybe there is a benefit to the external. Anyways, lots of reading up to do and always open to suggestions!
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307 Posts
I have one using the stock ecu, I wonder what fail safes the Holley might have that can used
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2,378 Posts
I'd suggest adding dual feed lines to the aftermarket rails add a Y block to your upgrading the fuel system list and will probably require dual return lines to regulator. You're past the horsepower threshold for a single feed line and 8 thirsty 80lb injectors. #5 injector would be the first injector not getting the abundant fuel pressure needed in your fuel system you describe.
IMO
IMO
I don't know about the abilities of the Terminator X but with a Holley HP or Dominator ECU a user can make advanced tables that will offset one parameter when another parameter falls out of line. So you can easily make a timing offset table that removes timing if the AFR moves above a certain level. You can also specify the exact AFR you want to use, IE, left bank, right bank, leanest, richest, average, etc.
The tuner had suggested I go to a Y at the rails. The interesting part is I actually feed my driver rail, then crossover from the front of that rail to the pass rail, so the #5 cyl was actually the 4th injector on the main feed line, though that cyl seems to be (from pulling plugs and it having some coolant on it) the one that went. It was also the plug that we had just checked for timing marks the run prior (granted at lower boost). The Y-block wouldn't be too difficult to add in at the rails. I just installed the Glenns 1000hp fuel kit when I did the motor (-8 supply/-6 return) so I'm married to it for awhile at least. My plan for down the road was to pull the -6 return and then use the current -8 for return and run a new -10 feed, but I've dumped so much into the car in the last 18mo (well into the 5 digit range/price of an economy car area) that right now I'm just trying to stop the bleeding a bit as I blew my budget months ago and have another $1600-$2000 to come up with for a new pump/tank setup. I do agree it appears there are some improvements that could be made on the line routing though, and they are on my list.
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Ahh okay was thinking you are feeding the driver side rails from the front to the back but you're going from the back to the front but still that driver side is the leaner bank when it runs out of fuel pressure or fuel volume with the single feed line. -8 feed-6 return is plenty for pump gas/race gas
Got the garage cleaned up and the car prepped to start pulling the heads tomm. For anyone interested, here are the plugs from the driver side. Plugs are starting with Cyl 8 on the left and moving to Cyl 5 on the right. The cyl 7 plug fell and hit the garage floor unfortunately so it has a little marking on the strap. Anyways, I’m not a pro but to me, cyl 8 (which is the first cylinder on the first rail on the fuel supply path) appears to maybe have run lean. To clarify, the carbon just wipes off and the plug more or less looks normal underneath, there isn’t damage to the actual metal but at first glance in the photo it does appear chewed up. I also noticed the back corner of the head by the firewall has a bit of wetness to it, but then it does near cyl 8 as well. Open to any predictions on what I’ll find when I get the head off. Hoping to get it at least out of the car tomm.
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straps on 5,6,7 look like they've taken a little beating
I mistyped above. It was pass side I pulled the plugs on. Cyl 1 was full of coolant. Looks like I’m in it for replacing both head gaskets and pulling the turbo kit.
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Might be the safest thing.. Some people are putting a psi sensor in the radiator to monitor coolant pressure and use as a fail safe sensor. If a gasket starts leaking into the coolant, even slightly, the pressure goes up and can be seen as something changing then replace the gasket before a major blow. If the gasket completely goes the sudden pressure read by the ECU can shut the motor down faster than we can lift off the gas.
ks
ks
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