Individual Cylinder Tuning
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Well it sounds like I need to pulls the plugs and get the antiseize cleaned off. I'll get that taken care of. I highly doubt that it will cure my bucking or inconsistantly colored plugs, but its worth a shot. And I agree that I used way too much antiseize this last go-round. I wasn't aware that it could harm anything.
Isn’t even worth the time. It’s not that.
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Hi kjb302ho,
The information I posted was "NOT" a solution to the OP's concern; it's to point out that anti-seize is unnecessary on his spark plug threads.......that is all. I hope that clears up any confusion.
Good luck
Michael Plummer
I know. but its a small detail thats overlooked a lot. maybe one of small multiple issues he is dealing with.
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4,280 Posts
Like YOU stated, YOU don't tune. You keep giving advice that the ProM doesn't need tuning. How do you know? You have no idea. All that you know is that your ECU hit the TARGET A/F. That's it.
Optimization is not an opinion LOL. Yes people are tuning brand new cars. That is because the factory has to tune for; emissions, fuel quality, longevity, warranty.
I'm not sayin the ProM is a bad system. Just stop being a company spokesman in every thread saying it doesn't need to be tuned. You never need a laptop hooked up to it, bla, bla, bla. I wonder how many fellow enthusiasts bought the system and think they can take it out of the box and just go from reading all the posts on this site. I know Michael and respect what he has done with it. BUT he has hooked a laptop up to his and tuned it. If you are happy with your results, I'm happy for you.
There are plenty of guys that could tune it, if they are worth anything. Most don't want to be bothered with it, because it doesn't have a big following, not because it doesn't need to be tuned. Heck my friend (on LI) has tuned the ProM. He has probably tuned most systems out there. He has traveled around the country tuning cars. I'm not sure if he would tune another one. I know he wasn't crazy about it. I could always ask if he would be interested, no guarantee. He uses a dyno in Suffolk all the time.
You can't always go by dyno numbers, but your 408 sounds like it is missing some hp at 15psi. I would almost bet with tuning some tables, you could find some more HP. Without seeing your tables, I think I know where I would start looking.
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4,280 Posts
The anti seize can foul the 02 sensor if to much is used. Mercury Racing (boat engines) had a bulletin out that states not to use anti-seize. It was causing all sorts of problems on their engines. They sell engines up to 1750hp currently.
Without going back to look at your other posts, is this a stick shift car?
From what I have seen, an engine will be less finicky being a little to rich, than to lean. I wouldn't run it any leaner at cruise than 14.7. You can try to richen it a little to see if it helps. Also try adding some timing in the area that is bucking.
Are you running 8 coils? I'm wondering if you have an issue with a coil/s, injectors or 02 sensor. The ECU will see a misfire as a lean condition and put more fuel in. Those plugs look rich.
I'm not sure if you got into boost yet. Be careful right now because you can damage the engine very quickly if things aren't good. I would hate to see you pulling the engine to fix it. I would spin the blower slower and make less boost till you get everything figured out.
no i dont tune, but I can read and follow directions, to the letter. Im not the company spokesperson, and i have never received anything from pro m. but Im pretty satisfied with doing 750 flywheel in my driveway just by doing that.
Good for your friend and his tuning ability, im sure he put a lot of time and effort into learning the trade. I have respect for people like that.
As for tuning new cars, a factory brand new car has the ability to go 100,000 miles+ and still pass emissions here in ny. So I dont know how a tuner is going to outsmart the engineers who wrote the software after an sct class.
My combos have done everything I stated above. they didn't stall , buck, shutter, hunt, surge, etc. Basically what a new vehicle does from the factory.
Also my 408 is tad on the big side, for a v3 but the midrange is insane, where I spend 99% of my time
If you can follow directions without thinking you know more than you know, you will have very similar outcomes.
Happy St. Patrick's Day, go enjoy a pint.
Cheers!
I also change engine combinations more than anyone I know. Cant just have a tuner on standby lol. New combo going to be installed in May. Dart iron eagle 8.2,. 9.2:1 compression, ti, nos, meth, flex fuel etc. not even looking at the fuel or spark tables.
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6,072 Posts
Ok, just a quick reply because all this back and forth isn't helping the OP.
You're both (stangjumper and Kjb302ho) are right about tuning for HP. Some cars don't need a tune, and others will benefit. On one car, it's documented on the Corral somewhere, but John tried adding more advance, and it didn't pick up any noticeable rwhp, so the tune out of the box was good. On my setup, the timing tables were not optimized, and with more total timing, the car picked up a substantial amount of rwhp. FYI, both cars are forced induction and 302-based engines.
On driveability issues: I listed below some calibration parameters to look at when it comes to surging, hesitation, no-start conditions, etc. (1) Pro-M EMS stuff | Ford Mustang Forums (corral.net)
People with the system should learn or at least know where things are if they want a tuner to tune with the Pro-M. Trust me, knowing how to use the Scope function (data logger) is key for any tuner. So what are people waiting for? Go out and learn how to use it, or pay John and me to tune it (shameless plug). And stop using ****ty aftermarket parts and expecting your EMS to tune around them. The Pro-M system is easier to use if you don't have to tune around issues associated with bad aftermarket parts.
Other tuners: My opinion is the biggest issue for other tuners is that they don't know the software (they don't know where anything is), which slows down the process and can bring a level of frustration with it. Good tuners know how to tune regardless of the system. It's obvious they have a comfort level with the system they use the most......but if you want them to tune your Pro-M system, you must help them locate parameters or variables they want to view.
Thanks
Michael Plummer
You're both (stangjumper and Kjb302ho) are right about tuning for HP. Some cars don't need a tune, and others will benefit. On one car, it's documented on the Corral somewhere, but John tried adding more advance, and it didn't pick up any noticeable rwhp, so the tune out of the box was good. On my setup, the timing tables were not optimized, and with more total timing, the car picked up a substantial amount of rwhp. FYI, both cars are forced induction and 302-based engines.
On driveability issues: I listed below some calibration parameters to look at when it comes to surging, hesitation, no-start conditions, etc. (1) Pro-M EMS stuff | Ford Mustang Forums (corral.net)
People with the system should learn or at least know where things are if they want a tuner to tune with the Pro-M. Trust me, knowing how to use the Scope function (data logger) is key for any tuner. So what are people waiting for? Go out and learn how to use it, or pay John and me to tune it (shameless plug). And stop using ****ty aftermarket parts and expecting your EMS to tune around them. The Pro-M system is easier to use if you don't have to tune around issues associated with bad aftermarket parts.
Other tuners: My opinion is the biggest issue for other tuners is that they don't know the software (they don't know where anything is), which slows down the process and can bring a level of frustration with it. Good tuners know how to tune regardless of the system. It's obvious they have a comfort level with the system they use the most......but if you want them to tune your Pro-M system, you must help them locate parameters or variables they want to view.
Thanks
Michael Plummer
Good advice Mike, let's split the difference.
All my combos, were not dyno tuned, but had excellent manners and drivability. Im more concerned about those aspects than hp. Since I was satisfied with that, the fact that I made hp wise is icing.
I got the results from reading the directions, and not using **** components.
I cant wait months for a dyno, if I want more hp, ill just add a smaller pulley and leave everything else alone.
All my combos, were not dyno tuned, but had excellent manners and drivability. Im more concerned about those aspects than hp. Since I was satisfied with that, the fact that I made hp wise is icing.
I got the results from reading the directions, and not using **** components.
I cant wait months for a dyno, if I want more hp, ill just add a smaller pulley and leave everything else alone.
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