[DNash1966]

I'm curious to hear who has messed with the individual cylinder tuning on the Pro-M and what advice you can give me. I'm running the Pro-M intake manifold that looks a bit like a Victor Jr. and the spark plugs on the four corners (cylinders 1,4,5,8) are much lighter than the center four cylinders (2,3,6,7). I thought for a while that my intake gaskets might be leaking, so I pulled the intake and replaced the gasket, but the plugs look the same after doing that. I have moved injectors around, but the plugs seem to stay the same. All I can think is that the intake must be the cause, but I'm a little confused because I would have expected the opposite condition (lighter plugs in the center four and darker plugs on the corners). If anyone has any other thoughts, I'd love to hear them.

 

[kjb302ho]

injectors flowed and tested yet?
Fuel pressure verified under boost yet?
Smoke test performed?
Manifold straight?
Bolts torqued again after heat cycles?
exhaust gaskets properly matched?
exhaust bolts arent bottomed out causing a false reading?
innovate widebands in the garbage? lol

 

[kjb302ho]

And ive never touched the individual tuning in the system.

 

[32Vpwr]

are u checking the plugs after wot shut down or just pulling them after idling cruising?

 

[DNash1966]

are u checking the plugs after wot shut down or just pulling them after idling cruising?

Just checking them after driving around town for a while.

 

[DNash1966]

injectors flowed and tested yet?
Fuel pressure verified under boost yet?
Smoke test performed?
Manifold straight?
Bolts torqued again after heat cycles?
exhaust gaskets properly matched?
exhaust bolts arent bottomed out causing a false reading?
innovate widebands in the garbage? lol

Yes to all questions asked except for Replacing the Innovate Widebands, though Innovate issues wouldn't cause differences from plug to plug (which I'm sure you know, hence the LOL).

 

[DNash1966]

Here's the Driver's side after driving around for about 80 miles.

 

[stangjumper]

Why so much oil on the threads?

Seems like something is going on. I would swap 1 and 4 injectors with 2 and 3 and see if it follows. You should not be seeing such a discrepancy, especially at low load rates. I wonder if the injectors are good?

This is coming from someone that actually tunes. I use individual cylinder tuning. Works well, if you good data to go by.

500 street miles with a lot of boost passes.

 

[DNash1966]

Why so much oil on the threads?

Seems like something is going on. I would swap 1 and 4 injectors with 2 and 3 and see if it follows. You should not be seeing such a discrepancy, especially at low load rates. I wonder if the injectors are good?

This is coming from someone that actually tunes. I use individual cylinder tuning. Works well, if you good data to go by.

500 street miles with a lot of boost passes. View attachment 1096225

That's not oil on the threads, it's anti-seize. I did swap 5 and 8 with 6 and 7 and the problem didn't follow. Your plugs look great...how I was hoping mine would look. How have you gone about the individual cylinder tuning and what data are you looking at for that tuning? I'm not sure if my issue would benefit from individual cylinder tuning or not, but I'd like to learn what I can and play around with it.

 

[DNash1966]

Why so much oil on the threads?

Seems like something is going on. I would swap 1 and 4 injectors with 2 and 3 and see if it follows. You should not be seeing such a discrepancy, especially at low load rates. I wonder if the injectors are good?

This is coming from someone that actually tunes. I use individual cylinder tuning. Works well, if you good data to go by.

500 street miles with a lot of boost passes. View attachment 1096225

Are you using the Pro-M system? What intake are you using?

 

[kjb302ho]

That's not oil on the threads, it's anti-seize. I did swap 5 and 8 with 6 and 7 and the problem didn't follow. Your plugs look great...how I was hoping mine would look. How have you gone about the individual cylinder tuning and what data are you looking at for that tuning? I'm not sure if my issue would benefit from individual cylinder tuning or not, but I'd like to learn what I can and play around with it.

antiseize can hurt the plug. just a drop

 

[kjb302ho]

are you having any further drivability problems? only screw with the individual cylinder tuning after everything is fixed. like your detonation, idle, hunting, stalling etc

 

[DNash1966]

antiseize can hurt the plug. just a drop

Good to know. I'll get them cleaned up.

 

[DNash1966]

are you having any further drivability problems? only screw with the individual cylinder tuning after everything is fixed. like your detonation, idle, hunting, stalling etc

I'm not having any detonation, idling, stalling or hunting issues. But I do continue to have a slight but pretty constant stuttering/jerking when I'm cruising at a steady speed at lower RPM's. It is most noticeable between 1500-2000 RPM and when load is 0.15-0.25. Other than that issue, which is pretty annoying, everything else seems to be operating as I would expect at the moment.

 

[Chris93Cobra]

What spark plugs are they? I would assume you have the right heat range? I had rich plugs like the middle ones and went one range hotter and they all cleaned up.

Before NGK TR8 to NGK TR7


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DNash1966]

What spark plugs are they? I would assume you have the right heat range? I had rich plugs like the middle ones and went one range hotter and they all cleaned up. View attachment 1096237
View attachment 1096238
Before NGK TR8 to NGK TR7


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm running Autolite 3923's, which I believe are the correct heat range for my setup.

 

[kjb302ho]

how much boost are you running? gap?

 

[32Vpwr]

u can balance the cylinders at part throttle but you will need indiv egts or indiv o2s. not recommended for full power tuning. (inv o2s yes). cylinders will have varying ve capacity. some will be hotter by nature of the geometry. also i wouldnt go without antiseize.
idk what cam u are running but most likely you will need to manipulate lamda and timing in the cruise loaf cells to eliminate or reduce the bucking.

 

[DNash1966]

how much boost are you running? gap?

About 12 pounds of boost and plugs are gapped at .028".

 

[DNash1966]

u can balance the cylinders at part throttle but you will need indiv egts or indiv o2s. not recommended for full power tuning. (inv o2s yes). cylinders will have varying ve capacity. some will be hotter by nature of the geometry. also i wouldnt go without antiseize.
idk what cam u are running but most likely you will need to manipulate lamda and timing in the cruise loaf cells to eliminate or reduce the bucking.

Well I definitely don't have individual EGTs or O2s for each cylinder and I don't think the Pro-M system allows for more than two. I figured that must be the only way to accurately tune each cylinder.

I've tried messing with the lambda and timing in the cruise load cells, but so far haven't found a combination that has improved the bucking. I'll play with it some more though.

Can anyone tell me why the cells in the Base Spark table from 1500-2500 RPM and 0.3-0.5 load are much lower than the surrounding cells (14-16 degrees) and the cells in the Base Lambda table from 1750-2500 RPM and 0.3-0.5 load are much lower than the surrounding cells (0.92-0.94 lambda)? Is it because those are supposedly the "cruise" load cells and cruise needs less timing and more fuel? Where I'm experiencing a lot of the bucking is right above this block of cells (0.15-0.25 load) which has timing set at 20 degrees and lambda set at 0.99-1.00 in the base preset tune tables.