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What combo's would get me 350+rwhp naturally aspirated out of a 302/306? Needs to be EFI, and able to idle, smog compatibility doesn't matter - I don't want a stroker...

The idea is as much HP as possible, sacrificing all torque for any extra hp. I want to make up torque through a six speed tranny with gearing very deep in the rear. You can use gears to multiply torque but you can't multiply power with gears.



Cam?

Heads?

Intake?

Compression ratio?

Headers?

If anyone has dyno sheets please post with mods.

thx

--Paul
 

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shouldnt be to hard,my old p headed combo made 327 rwhp.

holley intake,75mm tb

bbk 1 3/4 headers with ball flange cut off

11.1 compression

alot of diffrent heads will work but cheapest for amount of work would prebably be afr 185 or 205

cam probably something in the 230 to 235 duration range.

should run real well,idle might be a little rough but not bad.would make for an excellent street car.
 

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First Combo made the power in the sig. 5 dyno runs in 45 mins, who knows, I might've been able to hit more if the car wasn't heat soaked. It idled very smooth at 800 and pulled to 6300. Driveability was excellent. That combo with more compression would easily get you your goal and be very driveable. The second setup would go way past your goals. It still drove good, but the idle would surge a little. I never had it tuned so I don't know how smooth or steady it would have gotten. It would want to idle around 900-1000. Didn't have driveability issues with it and it screamed up to 6500 RPM. I'd be extremely happy with my first setup again with more compression. Probably 11:1 next time. That should make some power and be a really fun street/strip combo.

Dyno graph:

http://geocities.com/bwick182/
 

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your power really falls off at 5800, is that from valve float??
 

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I did have a little bit of valve float. I didn't have the upgraded springs at the time. Also the Performer intake was going to limit power over 6k anyway.
 

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what heads were you running? what valve springs?
 

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Ian22 said:
what heads were you running? what valve springs?
1st time: 165's with 2.02 intake valves and stock AFR springs. Not sure on spring pressures.

2nd time: the intake ports were ported to roughly 180cc (275 CFM at .550lift), springs were 150 seat/385 open with titanium retainers.
 

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kazlx said:
It's not going to idle.

For that it would be easier to build a 351W.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

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Tomzilla808 said:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
You know what amuses me? Is somehow everyone on every internet board has badass cars. Yet whenever I go to a show what do I see. Jack ****. You are entitled to you own opionion, as I have mine. I have never personally seen a NA car make that much power. I have nothing to prove. Explain to me why a 351W would not be a better choice? Why make 350 rwhp when 400 would be not even straining a larger platform? I was merely making a suggestion. Oh that's right a 351 wouldn't be a sleeper.......No one will notice an 11:1 306. Not to mention the fact most people can't even tell the difference.

Granted, my answer was short and I should have expained my opinion, or not posted at all. I should have asked if there was any reason why he want a 302/306 based motor. Ask someone with a 408 if they will go back to an NA 306, and get back to me.
 

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I just find it amusing that you said "it won't idle" Why should I have to explain anything to you?? You obviously have all the answers....:rolleyes:
 

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Explain to me why a 351W would not be a better choice? Why make 350 rwhp when 400 would be not even straining a larger platform? I was merely making a suggestion. Oh that's right a 351 wouldn't be a sleeper.......No one will notice an 11:1 306. Not to mention the fact most people can't even tell the difference.

Granted, my answer was short and I should have expained my opinion, or not posted at all. I should have asked if there was any reason why he want a 302/306 based motor. Ask someone with a 408 if they will go back to an NA 306, and get back to me. [/B]
I HAVE seen N/A cars make that kinda power. Even one or two 306s. Maybe you need to get out more.

I agree, it'd be easier to make the power with a larger engine. However, if everyone thought like you did by just throwing a bigger engine in it, the NMRA and Fun Ford wouldn't exist.

Maybe he doesn't want the 100lb penalty associated with the 351w. Maybe he'd like to do something with the car besides drag race it. Maybe he justs wants the challenge of doing it with a 306.

Ask anyone with a 408 if they road race or autocross then get back to me.
 

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ACames said:
1st time: 165's with 2.02 intake valves and stock AFR springs. Not sure on spring pressures.

2nd time: the intake ports were ported to roughly 180cc (275 CFM at .550lift), springs were 150 seat/385 open with titanium retainers.
who portedn your afr 165s? im looking to get mine ported andfitted with 2.02 valves.
 

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Matt_Sterbator said:
I HAVE seen N/A cars make that kinda power. Even one or two 306s. Maybe you need to get out more.
Your first sentence makes no sense. Of couse I have seen NA make that kind of power, I never said I have not. And one or two 306s. How long have you been in to cars. I doubt its a week. Probably more like years. Would you call something you have seen once or twice in years common? If they were common every retard with a street car would be making that much power.

I agree, it'd be easier to make the power with a larger engine. However, if everyone thought like you did by just throwing a bigger engine in it, the NMRA and Fun Ford wouldn't exist.
You agree with me. Did you miss the part where I said I should have asked what the purpose was? Or can you not read?

Maybe he doesn't want the 100lb penalty associated with the 351w. Maybe he'd like to do something with the car besides drag race it. Maybe he justs wants the challenge of doing it with a 306.
See Above.

Ask anyone with a 408 if they road race or autocross then get back to me.
If you haven't seen anyone that roadraces or autocrosses with a stroked 351W then maybe you should get out more.


By the way, the answer was not intended for you.

Looking at it now, I am sure the guy has money, since he would be using a T56, and can probably afford whatever way he wants to make 400 rwhp. I wish all of us had that much money. I don't have all the answers, I gave a suggestion to a more cost-effiecient way to make power. But as we all know cars are never cost efficient. I also do all my own work which is more than I can say for a lot of people on here. It's a little harder to think the way of making 400 rw NA when you can't drop you car off at a shop for 10K worth of work. But maybe since I don't have money, I am not entitled to an opinion.

That is all. If anyone has any other comments please PM me, as I would like to be mature and let this guy have his thread back.
 

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Its not that hard to do. It does take some money and someone who can create a good combo. Thats why I went with FTI. I told Ed what I wanted and he gave me a great combo that runs real well. Everything has to work together. I took his combo and tweaked a few things and this is where I ended up. ( See below ). I'm sure my headers are costing me a few HP and I only did two pulls back to back when I dynoed the last time. A few more pulls and tuning could have netted a few more HP, but the curves looked good. With better headers and more tuning maybe 365-370 HP is possible, but I am going to leave this motor alone. The nice thing is I have no valve float up to 6800 and it actually does idle good. A little higher than an average 300 rwhp motor but, good.
 

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Posted earlier, by yourself...
I have never personally seen a NA car make that much power...

then

Of couse I have seen NA make that kind of power, I never said I have not.
Make up your mind

And one or two 306s. How long have you been in to cars. I doubt its a week. Probably more like years. Would you call something you have seen once or twice in years common? If they were common every retard with a street car would be making that much power.
I said what I've SEEN. With my own two eyes, on a dyno, in person. Unfortunately, I can't hang around at the dyno waiting for everyone to run their cars. I don't count all of the internet stories, and second hand rumors I've heard. I never said they were common, but it can be done. Obviously more retards have cars than smart people ;)

Did you miss the part where I said I should have asked what the purpose was? Or can you not read?
The point was who cares why he wants to build a 306. He simply asked a question about a particular motor, not suggestions on building a 351w. Did you miss that part ?

If you haven't seen anyone that roadraces or autocrosses with a stroked 351W then maybe you should get out more.
Now ask those people if they built the car to autocross, or if they built the car to drag race, but happen to take it to the road track every now and then. I've been to more autocross/road race events than I care to admit. Funny thing is that I've never seen a purpose built road race car with a stroked 351w. Saleens not withstanding.

By the way, the answer was not intended for you.
The guy asked for opinions on how to build a 306, not your opinions for going with another set up. He didn't ask what would be more cost effective, he didn't ask what would be easier.

What's funny is how you talk about maturity after your little whiney rant about not having money. If this guy was having someone build his motor, I'm sure he'd be asking the engine builder.

Have a nice day :D
 

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I have one Question.. why wouldn't it Idle? Doesn't anyone like a Big Ignort Sounding cam anymore?? I LOVE IT.!! THE HARDER IT LOPES THE BETTER.!!

I agree about it being a great Feeling making Awesome Power out of a little 302.. anyone can throw in a 351 or bigblock and call it a day.. but to BEAT THE **** out of Bigblocks with a little 302 now thats inpressive in my book..

My neighbor has an 86 mustang with a built 302 in it.. He runs 10.50s in the 1/4.. He doesn't talk it all up and just goes and races.. we were at the Track and there was this guy with a Bigblock Mopar..(440) He was talking **** about my neighbors Little 302... My neighbor goes up and does his thing and all..
And at the End of the Day guess what the Guy with the Big Block Mopar did?? went up to the guy with the 302 Mustang, shook his hand and said he was sorry and your car is F-ing Fast..!
It was beautifull..! I know that was OFF TOPIC mut a wanted to share..! :) P.S the 302 mustang ended up being the FASTED car at the Track that Day.. About 30 street cars where there. with a best run of 10.50 and its not stroked.. just 150 horse shot of N.O.S with stock Rebuit Bottom end..!!
 
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