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A shop named Big Hat racing made the Gen3 fit a New Edge by cutting the fire wall pinch weld.

I had to delete the CMCVs to make the Gen3 fit my SN95. There wasn’t much of a low end torque loss. It still cuts 1.7 second 60’ times.
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You can see there is almost 0.5” of interference. Look at the bolt hole left of the intake bolt.

Here are the interference points. Look at the scuff marks on the CMCV canisters.
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Cheers,
 

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Discussion Starter · #162 ·
Thanks for posting that info and the images mitchmcgee, there's no greater source of information than someone's first-hand experience. I have to assume that the size/geometry/location of the CMCV assemblies on the Gen 3 intake is different than what is on the Gen 2 CMCV intake since we had no issues installing the Gen 2 Coyote in our development New Edge Mustang. I will take some photos of the CMCV assemblies on that car and their proximity to the firewall when my schedule permits and post them here for everyone's benefit. For the sake of being sure we will be comparing apples to apples, what specific K-member are you using in your car?
 

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Discussion Starter · #166 ·
I'll try and compare the CAD models of the Gen2 and Gen 3 intake manifolds to see if the CMCV canisters moved.
That would be of great help Jack, please be share your findings here. The Coyote swap display stand that I built for last year’s Ford event using the MMKM-2.1 K-member will be getting used again at the show this year (next weekend) and I plan to evaluate the Holley oil pan and Hooker Blackheart headers on it after the show to see if they can tolerate being moved forward on the K-member by the .7” your mount adapters provide without experiencing interference.
 

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does the ford gen 3 control pack even control these?
does the crate engine also have them?
Yes, the Ford Performance Gen3 control pack controls the CMCVs.
Yes, the Ford Performance Gen3 Coyote engine has the CMCVs.

The Ford Performance Gen3 Coyote and control pack will run with the CMCVs locked out. I bought a tune to work around the locked out CMCVs. I ran my 2018 GT A10 and 1995 GT Coyote swap on the same dyno back to back. The Coyote swap made 15 more peak HP. I think that’s due to the manual transmission and Hooker long tubes.

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Discussion Starter · #169 ·
Mitchmcgee, can you tell me how close the stock Gen 3 oil pan on your swap gets to the MMKM-2.1 K-member and steering rack? Can you also tell me if you are using a power or manual steering rack and if you installed it at the centered position, or had to use offset bushings to clear the oil pan. I'm going to update the Hooker Blackheart Mustang Coyote swap user guide and that information will be useful in my efforts to do that.

Thanks
 

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Mitchmcgee, can you tell me how close the stock Gen 3 oil pan on your swap gets to the MMKM-2.1 K-member and steering rack?
Can you also tell me if you are using a power or manual steering rack and if you installed it at the centered position, or had to use offset bushings to clear the oil pan.
It’s very close. About 0.100” of clearance between the steering rack and oil pan. There is about 0.200” between the K-member and the oil pan.

I’m using a 2002 Mustang GT power steering rack. I used Maximum Motorsports offset rack bushings at their lowest offset. I also used about 0.200” of spacers between the rack mounting ears and the K-member steering rack mounts.

I set the engine drive line angle to maximize the clearance between the headers and the steering shaft. While keeping the oil pan off the steering rack. So, that may be why the CMCVs didn’t fit my car. If I was able to add more shims between the transmission mount and transmission; then there would have been more clearance for the CMCVs. I’m not sure it would have been enough.

But, it is not an issue for me to delete the CMCVs. This is a dedicated track car and killing a little low end torque is not noticed. The only traction control is the driver’s feet. The car will rip hot 275 drag radials off a fully prepped drag strip. It takes a judicious amount of clutch slipping to achieve good 60’ times.

It’s even easier to spin Michelin PS4S and Cup2s on the track. Usually the car never goes below 3,000 RPM. The best lap times are produced by keeping the revs Between 5,500 and 8,000 RPM.

Cheers,
 

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Discussion Starter · #171 ·
It’s clear that you’re making good use of your car mitchmcgee. Your information is valuable as now I know that your engine is at it’s maximum possible forward position when using the stock Gen-3 oil pan. What transmission and transmission crossmember are you using?
 

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I took the Gen 2 (2015-16) and Gen 3 (2018-20) intake manifolds and overlaid them in Solidworks. When doing this, I aligned the outlet ports of the intake manifolds. I assumed that the intake ports on the cylinder heads are in the same relation to the cylinder bores on both engines. Gen 2 is blue. Gen 3 is brown.

Tire Automotive tire Auto part Animation Illustration



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The major difference between the two setups are the angles and positions of the CMCV actuators. They are essentially in the same fore/aft location in both applications.
 

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Discussion Starter · #174 ·
Thanks for posting the results of that exercise Jack, that gives us all one less variable to guess at. Mitchmcgee got his Gen 3 to fit using the stock oil pan, but the small amount of clearance he ended up with between it and his steering rack leads me to believe interference would be encountered in that area when using the Hooker Blackheart transmission crossmembers. That being considered, use of an aftermarket oil pan would definitely be needed to use the new motor mount bottom plates you guys offer that move the engine forward by .7” to clear the CMCV assemblies. It’s all good information that I can add to the Hooker Blackheart user guide.
 

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Discussion Starter · #175 ·
OK, I was able to get out to our 2004 New Edge development car and take a few images of the engine compartment to show the proximity of the Gen 2 CMCV canisters to the firewall. I couldn't get my phone into a position that would capture the visual clearance gap between the canisters and the firewall, but my eye-crometer tells me it was about 3/16" I flexed the canisters rearward with my hands to try to get them to make contact with the firewall and was not able to do so. Some things to keep in mind with this combination is that the car is equipped with the stock K-member, motor mounts, transmission crossmember and transmission mount. Here's the images...
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Are there any plans In the future to use the stock k member with the gen 3 and a blackheart oil pan/pickup? I see mmr makes a pickup tube for the gen 3 to use the gen1 and 2 oil pan but i assume there are still clearance issues with that pan on the stock k.

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Discussion Starter · #177 ·
The stock 96-04 K-member is far more forgiving with clearance than the stock Fox body K-member due to the lower steering rack mounting height position Ford used on The Mod Motor applications. The Holley 302-50 pan would only be usable on a Gen 3 engine if the oil pump/pick-up tube were retrofitted backwards to the Gen 2 style parts. The Moroso 20571 oil pan is usable for n the Gen 3 engine if you use a specific pick-up tube they offer for it and the Hooker Blackheart 1-3/4” headers will install with that pan also. The downside to that combination of parts is the starter being non-serviceable without dropping the K-member out of the car. That is due to the shape of the oil pan sump on the right side.
 

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Discussion Starter · #179 · (Edited)
I would give the stock Gen1/Gen 2 pan with the MMR pick-up tube a try with the stock Mod Motor K-member as it may very well fit. I’ve not tried it, but others have used them before by putting a slight dent under the right front corner of the sump to clear the K-member. Be sure to report your findings back here for everyone else’s benefit.
 

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Hello to all. I introduced myself the other day in the new members thread as the design engineer responsible for the development of Hooker Blackheart engine swap systems at Holley.

As I mentioned in my introduction, I am building this thread to provide technical support for the Hooker Blackheart Mustang Coyote swap systems,that are beginning to get released, to all members of this forum. I am taking it upon myself to do this due to the positive experience I've had giving similar support for our LS swap systems on other enthusiast forums over the last 7-8 years.

These forum tech threads I build and maintain serve to function as a single-point source of reference information that can easily be searched and accessed by the reader. Please keep in mind that that I do not have any involvement with the sale of products sold by Holley, so I cannot offer any information related to those activities.

However, if you want to know what you can, or cannot do with the Hooker Blackheart Coyote swap system, or how the components differ from other Coyote swap products, that I can do for you more effectively than anyone else employed by Holley. Also, some information I give here will be preliminary to the actual release of these parts, so please ask/post any relative questions you have here in this thread.

I welcome inquiries about these swap systems directly within this thread, so other readers can benefit from the information, or through my message box.
I have spent the better part of a year developing all the parts that will eventually be released and discussed in this thread, so please bear with me while I endeavor to cover all the information...there is at lot to cover.

With the introduction and intention of this thread out of the way, let me conclude this first post by giving a general describing what the Hooker Blackheart Coyote swap systems are designed to do.

The Hooker Blackheart 1979-93 and 1996-2004 Mustang Coyote swap systems are designed to provide a comprehensive solution for the engine/transmission mounting, and header and exhaust system requirements associated with performing a Coyote engine swap in these vehicles.

These systems consist of a multitude of engine mounting brackets and transmission crossmember options that permit a user to install a Coyote engine into a 1979-93 or 1996-2004 Mustang (using a stock, Maximum Motorsports, AJE or Team Z K-member) in conjunction with a T45, TKO, TR3650, T56, Powerglide, 4R70W, 6R80 or MT82 transmission.

In addition to these mounting components, these systems also include headers and exhaust systems co-developed with the mounting components to be fully compatible with all the listed transmissions. The headers were carefully designed to address some of the issues that were noticed to be still causing users issues, such having to notch oil pan sumps to clear the headers, non-compatibility with automatic transmissions and poor serviceability of starters and transmissions/clutches after completion of the swap.

There is a shared design characteristic of the Hooker Coyote swap systems that makes the interchangeability of all the involved components possible, and that is the engine and transmission mounting location remaining in the same position regardless of the engine K-member being used.

This reference position is represented as the crankshaft height and passenger side offset and the engine/transmission bellhousing mating plane remaining in the stock Ford location. With that positioning being set, using an aftermarket engine K-member is merely an option and no longer a requirement to perform a Coyote swap into these cars, for those using the Hooker Blackheart 1-3/4" headers for these applications. The 1-7/8" and 2" Hooker Blackheart headers require the greater fitment envelope provided by the AJE and Team Z K-member for installation.

As I stated, there is a lot of information that will be shared here over the coming weeks and months, that I hope many of you will find helpful and valuable. This will include technical data sheets, parts selection guides and many, many photographs. I look forward to becoming part of the community here and helping out with your Coyote swap project needs as best I can. Feel free to ask away with any questions you may have.

Thanks,

Todd
only problem is trying to find complete set on website is impossible, couldn't find part number for 1 kit containing everything, stuck piecing it together and fitment description not helpful example system for coyote swapped new edge with 4r70w, the mid pipe is not known to tech if it will work with #bh3365 and the wait time for this part is ridiculous and price is 3 times the competition
 
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