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Discussion Starter #1
Just got my new stuff on and running, its a 91 302 rebuilt, pistons have been flycut and rods re-con with arps bolts, 1/2 ich trick flow girdle with arp studs, yada yada yada... anyways upper end is this-- AFR 185's, Ported stock intake (cobra), 1 3/4 long tubes, stock TB, Stock maf, stock 24lbers (30's awaiting install with tuning)

The car feels just slow down low compared to old set up wich was stock gt-40's and an e cam with the stock 1.7 rr, anyways the car doesnt pull till about 3500-4000 rpm, when it gets there its really ****ing pulls all the way past 6000 grand with no sign of letting up but up untill then its a bit less then the old combo, im wondering if its the new cam or if its simply the crappy ass untuned x3z 93 cobra computer, well people let me know what you think, cams specs are this

gross lift- .5695 int, .544 exh, duration @ .05 -224 int, 220 EXH, LOBE LIFT .3350 int, .320 exh., lobe sep 111.0

if any other specs needed to make any sort of conclusion let me know id really like to see more power out of this thing down low but maybe it just needs a dose of CI do help those heads out, also the cam was installed straight up but was told it has a 2 deg retard ground in if that makes any sense, also springs are the recomended ones and are set at 390 lbs open on the intake timing is set at 14 deg right now and I run 92 in it

thanx for any help Bill
 

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185's have fairly large intake ports for a 302, plus the 2.02 valve. With a 302 it's gonna take some rpm for efficient airflow. The cam you have is almost the same as mine. I think you're looking at a few tuning issues, otherwise sounds pretty normal. I also think something like an rpm intake would help you take advantage of those heads. With a carb and an rpm intake, my hp peaks at 6200. I'm sure 185's would peak a little higher than that. Just some thoughts.
 

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I think it's predictable it would soft down low - your set up has to rev to breath. Kind of curious about your thinking regarding running the stock t/b and stock maf with all that head/cam/exhaust?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Michael Yount said:
I think it's predictable it would soft down low - your set up has to rev to breath. Kind of curious about your thinking regarding running the stock t/b and stock maf with all that head/cam/exhaust?
The cam is made to rev to 6200-6300, I know a better intake would be nice but i love how the cobra looks and id like it to look somewhat stock if possible as I do show the car and its very much original, thats why i had it ported to try and keep up with the better intakes, the throttle body and maf are temporary, i have the intake ported for a 75mm TB and i have a 75mm prom on the shelf, kinda intresting development tonight i put it to the floor in 5th and its just bogged down and then i tried it again and really put it down to see if it would eventully get up and it did a decent little backfire, is this rich or lean? i tried knocking the fp down a bit and it seemed to get even more slugish, b/4 i changed it at wot it was hitting 48 psi, let me know what you guys think, what would a combo like this make for power? my old 100,000 mile motor made 262 rwhp and 300fttq a week b/4 i pulled the motor and put this one in, that motor went 13.70 at 102.9 on bald 17 inch radials, 60ft was i nthe 2.1 area, anyways even being sluggish down low this motor gets the car up to 100 extremly fast, the ass o meter says its in the 12's right now but who knows
 

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Discussion Starter #5
GreyLX306 said:
185's have fairly large intake ports for a 302, plus the 2.02 valve. With a 302 it's gonna take some rpm for efficient airflow. The cam you have is almost the same as mine. I think you're looking at a few tuning issues, otherwise sounds pretty normal. I also think something like an rpm intake would help you take advantage of those heads. With a carb and an rpm intake, my hp peaks at 6200. I'm sure 185's would peak a little higher than that. Just some thoughts.
also i know the heads are a bit big for a 302 but i got a killer deal on them as my friend changed his plans b/4 his new motor was done and i ended up getting them in pretty much new condition for a grand with rockers, if i was going new i would have went with the 165's but a turbo is in the plans for the next few years till then i have a big shot 150-300 hp kit with all the goodies and im hoping that will wake up my little 302 slug a bit at the track
 

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Discussion Starter #7
NotSoTame said:
kinda intresting development tonight i put it to the floor in 5th and its just bogged down and then i tried it again and really put it down to see if it would eventully get up and it did a decent little backfire, is this rich or lean? i tried knocking the fp down a bit and it seemed to get even more slugish
what would this be??
 

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Get a custom chip! It probably wants some timing down low and the injector pulse width adjusted in the mid range. A tune made a world of difference as far as throttle response, and mid range power on my car. Like 30ft lbs worth. I ran a setup with ported 165's that flowed like 185's with a 232/227 110 LSA cam and an RPM intake, and the SOB ripped! Had crazy throttle response and ripped to redline. That setup should've been good for at least 370 RWHP and 350+ TQ. Call Brian at HiTech Motorsport and have him tune it. He's in MN. Has a Dyno and was trying to get autologic chips. The power is hiding in the tune!

Forgot to add, a setup like yours with an RPM 2 should make about 350-360 RWHP
 

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Discussion Starter #11
ACames said:
Get a custom chip! It probably wants some timing down low and the injector pulse width adjusted in the mid range. A tune made a world of difference as far as throttle response, and mid range power on my car. Like 30ft lbs worth. I ran a setup with ported 165's that flowed like 185's with a 232/227 110 LSA cam and an RPM intake, and the SOB ripped! Had crazy throttle response and ripped to redline. That setup should've been good for at least 370 RWHP and 350+ TQ. Call Brian at HiTech Motorsport and have him tune it. He's in MN. Has a Dyno and was trying to get autologic chips. The power is hiding in the tune!

Forgot to add, a setup like yours with an RPM 2 should make about 350-360 RWHP
I know who Brian is, hes the guy that did the cam grind for me and I plan on having him tune my car with my tweecer as soon as he gets off his butt and learns the software, so you think it might just be tuning? btw brian has been doing the autologics tunes for some time now and also does ls1 edit for the bowtie guys
 

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NotSoTame said:
I know who Brian is, hes the guy that did the cam grind for me and I plan on having him tune my car with my tweecer as soon as he gets off his butt and learns the software, so you think it might just be tuning? btw brian has been doing the autologics tunes for some time now and also does ls1 edit for the bowtie guys
Cool, last I talked to him, he was trying to get the autologic software. Definitely have him tune it. Your powerband should, and will be VERY broad. I made 300 ft lbs at 3100 RPM-5800 RPM with that cam. I think it's tune related. There was a night/day difference on my car after the tune. I wish I knew how to post my graph. It shows my baseline, then finished tune. Get back to me with your impressions after the tune.
 

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A Cames it is nice to throw out HP numbers like that. What did your car run at the track? I have never seen numbers for it. That is kind of the real proof we need here . Last time I checked nobody raced on a Dyno
 

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2stangs69-91 said:
A Cames it is nice to throw out HP numbers like that. What did your car run at the track? I have never seen numbers for it. That is kind of the real proof we need here . Last time I checked nobody raced on a Dyno
I've had a long list of troubles, so the car hasn't seen the strip in a long time. It ran 13.0 at 111 with a blown head gasket on a wed night (In June) at the track with 2.2 60' times on DR's. Head gasket blew on the next pass after this. Had a miss all that day and was weather was in mid 90's. Those are the facts I have. Only went that once. After I blew the gasket (water pump hose) I upgraded everything, then blew that motor due to P/V clearance problems. I now have a stock shortblock with 150k+ miles, box stock 165's, and the rest of the supporting cast of parts. Only 9.5 compression. I expect it to run solid 112-114 mph traps when dialed in. It's not like I go dyno shopping. I dyno at Mustang Ranch along with everyone else that tunes with Byron. It's proven itself time and time again. If it makes you feel any better my dyno #'s didn't use any ice on the intake, and ran full accessories etc. Since I got those #'s the locals are all hatin because I don't have accurate track #'s to base on, yet. They try to infer that I'm a dyno or internet racer or somethin, when I used to race 1-2 times a week for just about 2 years.:rolleyes: I'll let you know as soon as I get #'s. Both new dyno and track #'s. If you wanna gimme your phone # I can let you be the first to know them ;) :evil: It's not gonna set the world on fire or anything but it will run the MPH it's supposed to for the weight!
 

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Thanks but I don't have to be the first to know I will wait for the book version LOL. Sorry for all your bad motor luck I have been there and it really sucks. If you let me know I might make the trip to Sac and beat you with my AOD GT40X headed car LOL good luck
 

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2stangs69-91 said:
Thanks but I don't have to be the first to know I will wait for the book version LOL. Sorry for all your bad motor luck I have been there and it really sucks. If you let me know I might make the trip to Sac and beat you with my AOD GT40X headed car LOL good luck
Cool, cruise down to Sac and we'll run. You act like I'll care if you beat me:confused: My car is far from 1/4 prepped. But as long as I get the MPH out of it to back up my dyno #'s for the haters, I'm happy. And it will! I'll never ET top notch because the car will never see slicks, powershifts, and I'm not a great driver. Hate on me all you want, I was just tryin to help a fellow corraler fix his low end problems. You have anything to add to help him out? Just thought I'd chime in since I've run setups extremely similar, and from the same builder.
 

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That is kind of the real proof we need here . Last time I checked nobody raced on a Dyno
Is anyone else getting sick of hearing this ridiculous statement or is it just me?

How many member cars are race only cars?
 

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rediculas.? why are you having your car dynoed if you never intend to try and race it. it is kind of pointless. Who cares how much HP you have at the burgerstand. Half the people out there lie about it anyhow. Plus there are so many dyno's out there with false numbers and operators who change numbers to help them selves out. Think about it If the dyno across town for some reason gives out better numbers on the same car where does everybody go. I guess my old school thinking is comming through. If you think your car is fast shut your mouth about how great your numbers are and prove it. BTW most of the reasons for his problem have been covered. Small motor big heads bigger cam=higher rpm operation and loss of lower end torque especialy with a retarded cam. It is pretty much black and white. More compression or cubes will really help out. BTW red cuope why don't ask how many members here have taken ther care to the track mybe 90% or so and A Cames you have run simular combo's but judging from your results are you really all that qualified to help out?
 

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why are you having your car dynoed if you never intend to try and race it.
To tune it, you need the motor tuned on the street too.

Plus there are so many dyno's out there with false numbers and operators who change numbers to help them selves out
Unfortunately this is true.

Think about it If the dyno across town for some reason gives out better numbers on the same car where does everybody go.
Can say the same thing about a track.

If you think your car is fast shut your mouth about how great your numbers are and prove it.
So you leave the track, put street tires & front sway bar back on, what do you do with your 12 second timeslip when a WRX pulls away from you at light? Yell out the window "atleast my car runs 12.x at track" that ought to intimidate him.

BTW red cuope why don't ask how many members here have taken ther care to the track mybe 90%
First spell check, second I never said take it to track I said race only..big difference between a street car going to track once a year and only driven at track.

My point is people strap to dyno and end up with xxx rwhp then everyone comes on and gets their panties in a bunch..why? Track isn't going to tell you exactly how much power the motor is making either, if anything there are less variables to screw up on the dyno then there is at track.
 

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2stangs69-91 said:
rediculas.? why are you having your car dynoed if you never intend to try and race it. it is kind of pointless. Who cares how much HP you have at the burgerstand. Half the people out there lie about it anyhow. Plus there are so many dyno's out there with false numbers and operators who change numbers to help them selves out. Think about it If the dyno across town for some reason gives out better numbers on the same car where does everybody go. I guess my old school thinking is comming through. If you think your car is fast shut your mouth about how great your numbers are and prove it. BTW most of the reasons for his problem have been covered. Small motor big heads bigger cam=higher rpm operation and loss of lower end torque especialy with a retarded cam. It is pretty much black and white. More compression or cubes will really help out. BTW red cuope why don't ask how many members here have taken ther care to the track mybe 90% or so and A Cames you have run simular combo's but judging from your results are you really all that qualified to help out?
You kill me dude! I went to the dyno to get a custom tuned chip. I dynoed on the same dyno as your buddy Brian and his car ran what it should for the weight and the HP it made. He even powershifts.

Obviously you have no clue what this guys problems are. I've had that exact cam, very similar heads etc etc etc etc. I even ran it with a bigger cam, and didn't have low end problems. But I guess your old school train of thought knows my car and setup etc better than I do. I have real world experience with these parts and you don't. Why didn't I have these problems you say I should have had? Trust me, I have several corral members (Norcal) who rode in and drove my car! They will vouch for it! The low end, mid range, top end, and driveability. Look around, at the hot 302-306 setups. My results are very comparable and nothing out of the ordinary. And yes, even if I did have track #'s you'd dispute those too. Say it was at X track, blah blah blah. Then bring up XXXX conditions blah blah blah.
 
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