[OonDeanisS]

i'm building a 410w EFI for my 90 coupe and I am having a hard time deciding which programmer to use. I am debating between:

1. $475 Microsquirt PNP from EFIsource
2. $839 MegaSquirt2 PNP from DIYautotune
3. $945 PiMPxs ms3 PNP from StingerPerformance

The car will be a 500hp NA street cruiser, that might see a small amount of nitrous some day, maybe.

i will be running 93 octane, 410w with a super victor EFI intake, 4150 throttle body and AFR205 renegade heads. Hydraulic lifter. MSD TFI distributor, Crane ignition box. 5 speed Manual Transmission.

--That being said, i think the microsquirt would likely do everything i need it to... ya know... run the motor. It has 12x12 fuel tables, 3 bar MAP, and fan control. People keep telling me ill eventually want more inputs and outputs... but i just dont know what for. This is the most wallet-friendly option.

--The Ms2pnp Megasquirt has all the same stuff as Micro, plus more. More inputs/outputs, 16x16 fuel tables, 4 bar MAP, and air conditioner controls.

--The PiMPxs is only $100 more than the ms2 and it uses ms3 with sequential fueling. I am tempted to go with this option because i assume the car would run better with the newest firmware and going to batch fire doesnt make too much sense to me. Its twice the price as Microsquirt, but it might be worth the investment. I just dont know if its a waste to pay extra for a bunch of features i wouldnt be using, just to get a few i would.


what do you think i should do?

 

[Saleen414]

How much is your time worth?

 

[OonDeanisS]

How much is your time worth?

Why do you ask that? would one take more time to set up than the others?

 

[Saleen414]

Ask AlexLTDLX or KEVIN$ how much time is involved in getting one of those systems to work. Google "problems with Megasquirt". There is even a Facebook page called "MegaSquirt sucks" dedicated to issues with that system. I guarantee you this: you will spend 1/10th the time, or less, getting the vehicle up and running great, not good, but GREAT with a Holley, Fast or Pro M system compared to anything MS has to offer. Can a MS system work? Sure, but be prepared to spend a few hundred hours to make it work right. Unless you have intimate knowledge with MS I would not touch one with a 100 foot pole. If your time is worth $0.00 the go ahead. Which is why I asked how much is your time is worth. If you have nothing better to do, go ahead, waste it, or save up a few bucks and get a real system and enjoy driving the car instead of screwing around trying to get a MS system to work right. Your call. After reading your other posts about the build, you obviously are not in a hurry, so you might as well spend another 3-6 months on it before you can enjoy it.

 

[OonDeanisS]

i wouldnt say my time is worthless, but i cant afford those systems. I am here trying to justify spending $500 extra on PiMP over microsquirt.

Theres no comparison to a holley efi or FAST system that cost $2k or more.

 

[TomR]

If you have boost or nitrous, get the Holley. It will be cheaper than pistons.

If you have time and are patient and the engine is NA, get the MS.

 

[OonDeanisS]

I want it to at least be capable of running boost or nitrous, in the future.

 

[Blue351]

If you have boost or nitrous, get the Holley. It will be cheaper than pistons.

If you have time and are patient and the engine is NA, get the MS.

Can you go into more detail as to why Megasquirt is insufficient for boost or nitrous?

 

[Chris94GT]

No problem here with the MSPNP2, while the holley and fast are nice I couldn't justify the cost of either. Took about 8 hours to tune including the install of the wideband. The VE function helps a lot but you get that function when you upgrade the license.

 

[Matt Cramer]

An MSPNP is plug and play with the stock wiring. The issues with Alex and Kevin were mainly related to trying things with non-stock parts on a wire in system - for example, trying to drive a CDI coil with an inductive module, or adapting a non-Mustang IAC valve and a rather complicated plumbing arrangement, stuff you can run into on any standalone.

One thing to keep in mind here is that you're not just comparing ECU variants; you're comparing suppliers. Each of those ECUs you mentioned has different tech support teams behind them.

 

[OonDeanisS]

Thanks Matt. All three are PNP with stock wiring. Just the micro has an adapter harness. I will be using a GM iac valve on my 4150 throttle body. Is that going to be a problem?

 

[midnightlaundry]

I like that the Stinger uses the Ford Harness. I also like that it uses a stock size box that fits in the stock location. It will do everything I need for at least half the price of the high dollar units.

I'm no racer, so this stuff isn't taking every last cent from my wallet.. It can do a lot for the money. Where do these people get all this money anyhow?? This hotrod stuff ain't cheap no matter what.

 

[5.0thunder]

Thanks Matt. All three are PNP with stock wiring. Just the micro has an adapter harness. I will be using a GM iac valve on my 4150 throttle body. Is that going to be a problem?

He was saying the MS systems were PNP whereas the holley and fast systems are not. You might have caught that, but just making sure.

 

[Matt Cramer]

Thanks Matt. All three are PNP with stock wiring. Just the micro has an adapter harness. I will be using a GM iac valve on my 4150 throttle body. Is that going to be a problem?

Systems that are PNP with the stock wiring are also normally set up to the stock electronics. The MSPNP Gen 2 does not have a stepper IAC output, and the MicroSquirt does not either. No idea on the PIMPX; you'd have to ask their tech support.

 

[OonDeanisS]

Systems that are PNP with the stock wiring are also normally set up to the stock electronics. The MSPNP Gen 2 does not have a stepper IAC output, and the MicroSquirt does not either. No idea on the PIMPX; you'd have to ask their tech support.

On DIYautotune website there is a page that says stepper IAC can be controlled with ms2. does it need additional hardware?

https://www.diyautotune.com/support/tech/other/stepper-iac/

 

[Matt Cramer]

A universal MS2 can control a stepper IAC but would need mods added for TFI ignition and other features you might want.

The MSPNP Gen 2 uses a MicroSquirt Module at its core. We designed it so that it would be possible to make a stepper-equipped version, but this is not standard equipment and the MSPNP is not easily modified. It trades flexibility for ease of installation.

 

[dupper]

I purchased a PIMPxs for my NA 331 about three weeks ago, So far I'm really happy with it. With the included base tune I had the car drive-able within an hour. The registered version of Tuner Studio with analyze live is worth the money.

According to the instructions the PIMPxs will run a 4 wire GM iac, You would have to run your own wires from the expansion port on the pimp to the iac.

 

[Assassin]

Ask AlexLTDLX or KEVIN$ how much time is involved in getting one of those systems to work. Google "problems with Megasquirt". There is even a Facebook page called "MegaSquirt sucks" dedicated to issues with that system. I guarantee you this: you will spend 1/10th the time, or less, getting the vehicle up and running great, not good, but GREAT with a Holley, Fast or Pro M system compared to anything MS has to offer. Can a MS system work? Sure, but be prepared to spend a few hundred hours to make it work right. Unless you have intimate knowledge with MS I would not touch one with a 100 foot pole. If your time is worth $0.00 the go ahead. Which is why I asked how much is your time is worth. If you have nothing better to do, go ahead, waste it, or save up a few bucks and get a real system and enjoy driving the car instead of screwing around trying to get a MS system to work right. Your call. After reading your other posts about the build, you obviously are not in a hurry, so you might as well spend another 3-6 months on it before you can enjoy it.

This may be true for a "generic" Megasquirt where there are hundreds of pages of documentation you have to sift through to find info for your particular application but it most certainly not the case for a plug and play product designed for your specific application.

The DIYPNP is a viable plug and play option but since I'm not that familiar with it's exact features/limitations, I can't say what it does/doesn't do. Some of the benefits of plug and play MS options is that all of this "sifting through info" is done for you and presented to you with only the pertinent information you need in an easy to understand format, with hardware already configured for your setup (no soldering), and in the case of the PiMPx/PiMPxs, it comes in a stock case so it will fit in the stock ECU hanger in the stock location in the kick panel. Actually, we've had multiple customers come use our products after spending way too much time with one of the more expensive products you mentioned above and being frustrated with the lack of support and information available from the above mentioned company to get it working properly.

Does that mean the PiMPx or any Megasquirt based plug and play option like the DIYPNP is perfect for everyone? No. But for people who are looking for a plug and play option with amazing support and all of the "bells and whistles" of the high dollar units for way less money, the PiMPx/PiMPxs and other PNP options are a good option.

 

[Assassin]

Systems that are PNP with the stock wiring are also normally set up to the stock electronics. The MSPNP Gen 2 does not have a stepper IAC output, and the MicroSquirt does not either. No idea on the PIMPX; you'd have to ask their tech support.

The PiMPx does have stepper IAC output available through the expansion connector.

 

[OonDeanisS]

Perfect! I will be ordering the PiMPxs with expansion connector wired for the stepper iac as soon as it's available.