[petmotel]

Did you get the high RPM miss worked out? For me that was the most exasperating problem I came up against. I had cooling issues with my 342 with the stock radiator. Fluidyne radiator and the stock SN fan/shroud take care of the N/A 363 in my '95 quite nicely.

Take a look at the impeller on your water pump, if it's the typical straight stamped steel type, an Edelbrock with the machined curved vane impellers will work much better. Be prepared for sticker shock.

FORD Edelbrock 88403 Edelbrock Victor Series High Performance Street Mechanical Water Pumps | Summit Racing

FORD Edelbrock 8840 Edelbrock Victor Series High Performance Street Mechanical Water Pumps | Summit Racing

Another option with a custom machined hi-flow impeller, much less expensive, and is in stock. I've used FlowKooler pumps and had good luck, some have had problems (but then some folks can't pour a glass of water either). With the SNs the impeller is open backed and clearance needs to be checked to timing cover, not an issue with the earlier styles.

FORD FlowKooler 1660 FlowKooler Hi-Flow Mechanical Water Pumps | Summit Racing

Jay

 

[petmotel]

If you want the Edelbrock pump at that staggering price, I did some searching and found several places that appear to still have them in stock. Autozone, Steeda, 4wheelparts, Scoggin Dickey Parts Center.

Jay

 

[SNK VNM]

Isn't there one currently posted for sale in the classifieds? I am curious if you have more experience or data to share about that or any aftermarket pumps. I've always used oem replacement style but wondered if there is a real gain for a street car.

Hackster, cool thread, ghost reading, is the sve rad only a failure for autocross or also for general use, in your opinion?

 

[Peter92lx]

Well, I decided to throw more money at this ****pile to see if I can resolve the cooling issue once and for all. All of my indicators are pointing to just not enough radiator and the SVE one seems to be questionable at best.

So after some looking on the internet I decided on Entropy Radiator. They seem pretty confident in their product and say it should have no issues cooling up up 1000 hp. custom built bolt in setup 2 row core with 1.25" tubes and 5,000 CFM of fan. I hope I have enough Alternator and battery to run it =)

Downside is it wont be available for 6 weeks....LAME.

Ordered tires and sway bars for the M2, need some harnesses and a seat next and see if I can dip under that elusive 1.30 lap time at PIR.

Cars gonna sit till I get the new setup so will be a looong wait.

Happy Thursday.

Sean

I've heard the SVE ones are not that good and will most likely leak over time. I was going to go that route when I built my car but decided to spend more money on the C&R radiator. The setup you ordered is really nice. I was looking at that when I was doing a search for a dual fan setup for my car. I was tempted to buy it but I don't think I have an issue with radiator capacity it was the fan setup I was running. If you haven't gone to a 130amp alternator I would upgrade it. I know my setup on startup will pull around 17amps per fan. The new setup both don't come on at the same time they come on at different temps which is nice.

 

[hackster]

Isn't there one currently posted for sale in the classifieds? I am curious if you have more experience or data to share about that or any aftermarket pumps. I've always used oem replacement style but wondered if there is a real gain for a street car.

Hackster, cool thread, ghost reading, is the sve rad only a failure for autocross or also for general use, in your opinion?

After buying it I rear a bunch of reviews that they dont last long. Seems to do ok for daily driver use though for now.

Thanks for the props and reading along. This forum seems pretty dead =)

I've heard the SVE ones are not that good and will most likely leak over time. I was going to go that route when I built my car but decided to spend more money on the C&R radiator. The setup you ordered is really nice. I was looking at that when I was doing a search for a dual fan setup for my car. I was tempted to buy it but I don't think I have an issue with radiator capacity it was the fan setup I was running. If you haven't gone to a 130amp alternator I would upgrade it. I know my setup on startup will pull around 17amps per fan. The new setup both don't come on at the same time they come on at different temps which is nice.

You made the right call. I upgraded to the 130 amp a while back when the stocker failed me and I could not get the car to charge once the fan turned on. I can trigger the second fan to come on later, might have to make that happen, just take opening the harness back up again but I am getting good at that.

Spent a little time tinkering on the car a bit on Saturday. Got the Black Magic fan mounted back up so I can at least take the car out and drive it. I have a 3 day autocross coming up in May that I would really like to attend and I think it will be fine for that.

Peeled off all the stickers and got it cleaned up and finally got the badge painted up and installed. Even took the car out for a little cruise to make sure all is well and working as it should.

There was a little car get together on Sunday so took this pile out. It was mostly European stuff, lots of Porsches a really cool Lancia. Some dude in an RWB Porsche with a rowdy engine looped his car out leaving and crashed it into a new Tundra on the street.....that was entertaining. A buddy with his 2020 GT4 invited me to go out for a drive with him and a few friends for some canyon carving and I figured what better way to shake down the car.

Im glad I went. This things a monster on back roads. I had no problems at all for once. I realized this weekend that I get hyper focused on the bad. (This cooling issue) I never have really noticed all of the good I have done. The ergonomics of the car, the guages, the new wheel, how much better the TKO is from the T5, all the newfound power (Still has a top end miss but there is part of me that things its the rev limiter). I could pull away from the GT4 on the straights and the corners and had no problem hanging with the Turbo S until he hit the straights and he could pull on me there.

All in all, the car is pretty good right now. Might have even sparked my interest to keep working on it.

I have learned though I am not good at standing around. I can handle it for an hour or so but much after that I just have other **** to do.

Hope everyone had a good weekend.....I got some killer riding in last week.

Sean

 

[Laminar]

After buying it I rear a bunch of reviews that they dont last long. Seems to do ok for daily driver use though for now.

Thanks for the props and reading along. This forum seems pretty dead =)

I'm sad to see forums dying left and right. I like build threads so much more than Facebook or Instagram posts, but it's a dying art.

There was a little car get together on Sunday so took this pile out. It was mostly European stuff, lots of Porsches a really cool Lancia. Some dude in an RWB Porsche with a rowdy engine looped his car out leaving and crashed it into a new Tundra on the street.....that was entertaining.

One of our two local C&C sites got cancelled this year after idiots would screw around in traffic. No accidents or anything, but enough that the local businesses shut it down. Too bad when a few idiots ruin it for everyone.

Im glad I went. This things a monster on back roads. I had no problems at all for once. I realized this weekend that I get hyper focused on the bad. (This cooling issue) I never have really noticed all of the good I have done. The ergonomics of the car, the guages, the new wheel, how much better the TKO is from the T5, all the newfound power (Still has a top end miss but there is part of me that things its the rev limiter). I could pull away from the GT4 on the straights and the corners and had no problem hanging with the Turbo S until he hit the straights and he could pull on me there.

NICE. I think I'm the same way - I stress out over all the details but once I get on course I'm reminded of just how much of a blast the car is to drive. I picked up an RX-8 a couple weeks ago and it's a total torqueless wonder compared to the M3. I miss the instant hit of power without having to wind it up all the way, and I can't stand the rotary exhaust sound - it's like a bunch of methed-up bees in a dirty garbage can. Give me the 5.0 all day.

 

[hackster]

Boy its been a long time since an update.....also a long time waiting on parts to show up so this pile has just been sitting in the garage until last week. I had ordered up the FlowCooler water pump, new 180 degree thermostat and new gaskets a while back and finally got around to getting those installed.

Stocker removed

New billet impeller setup going in.

Cleaned up and ready to reassemble....this wont be the last time though =(

This was how I found the old stat, the air bleeder not up top....

Before assembling the new stat I have found that drilling a few holes in the stat has made life so much easier. So I drilled 4- 1/8" holes in the thermostat. This does 2 things, it gets more coolant flowing and it has fluid flowing all the time, this has made filling and topping off the radiator much easier as well as getting the air out of the system much better. I dont plan on daily driving this thing so I am not really worried about any downsides, its not going to be seeing a lot of drive time on cold days either.

I wasnt in a big hurry cause the radiator was still a ways out but early last week I got a shipping notice and Ill be damned if it didnt show up at my doorstep at 6 pm on Friday night...rad.

This is from Entropy Radiator and all of my dealings were with Frank. Frank isnt the best customer service guy in the world, his communication wasnt always great but I can say without question the product made up for it.

I can say without question this is the nicest radiator I have ever purchased (The most expensive as well). I ordered this thing to cool up to 1000 hp, it has 5,000 CFM of fans on it and is dual 1.25" tubes inside the radiator, I tried to get a pic but the amount of flow through this thing is massive.

I ordered up a wiring harness as well and its beef, dual fuses, dual relays, dual feeds, OEM quality connections on the relays, fuses and fan connectors.

From the boxes to the instruction manuals on the fans and the radiators I could not be more impressed with my purchase.....the lead time sucked at 6 weeks.

I also spent a bunch of time relocating my power steering cooler off the radiator and from the bumper core support. I opened up the grille openings, the holes in the bottom of the bumper both at the deflector and at the air dam openings as much as possible. I was surprised at how much more open I was able to make it.

First fill failed as I had a leak at the thermostat housing. Note to self, those bolts suck. Since it needed to come apart and I needed a new gasket I put in button head allens and made sure that problem never happens again.

I ran a smaller overflow tank and built a little mount for it and got the system filled with 2 gallons of Prestone Pre mixed- The only approved fluids from Entropy. Filling and getting things up and running was super easy with the holes drilled in the stat as it has some flow all the time.

Fans came on and cycled exactly as they are setup in the Haltech. 184 degree on, 180 degree off.

Sorry I didnt take more pics, it turned out really well.

Took it around the block, checked for leaks and took it on a nice little 10 mile trip, runs a lot cooler, right at the fan settings and on the freeway it would run right around that 180 degree temps in high 80 degree weather. Before I could never run that cool, it always had the fans on. We took it out for a longer hour spin with the wife in 91 degree heat of the afternoon, put some load on it up some hills, high RPM, high load, low RPM, high load, freeway and backroads and it worked great. Reading on the Haltech and it the highest temps I saw was 188 degrees. The Autometer reads slightly higher than that. Ill be really curious to see how it does at the next track day.

The big winner though is I have been messing with this BS high end Miss and decided to try raising the Rev Limiter to the moon and seeing if that was the cause of it as I have lowered the limiter and the miss (Or apparent miss) would move down in the rpm. Sure as ****, thing revs to the moon now. Something in the Rev limiter, either the soft limiter or the historesis is causing the limiter to kick in at a lower RPM than it is called out in the ECU Settings. Car pulls hard to over 6k now.

Also found the main drain plug leaking so grabbed a new one and did the old vacuum in the oil fill port trick and swapped that out. Only thing currently leaking is the trans and its coming from the speedometer connection so probably need to sort that out.

I took it out for one last test drive last night and its the best its ever been right now.. After driving the M2 a bunch this thing is a whole different animal. Brakes are going to take a little getting used to as well.

Hope I can get this thing out for a track day in the next week or so and see if its dialed in for a change.

Happy Tuesday, hope everyone is doing well.

Sean

 

[Laminar]

Nice work! Hopefully this keeps you ice cold out on course.

 

[hackster]

Nice work! Hopefully this keeps you ice cold out on course.

Yeah I dont know about ice cold, I would be happy with temps below 220.

I originally ordered a cobra grille insert but once I got it I really didnt see the big benefit so I am stealing from other builds here (Peter) and ordered up the grille bar delete.

After a king of ****ty week it was pretty fun to just cut and grind on something after a really long day.

Just sitting in there after paint, still needs to get properly mounted should be able to knock it out tonight.

Car has taken on a little bit of a sinister look now....I kind of dig it. Would like to pull the wheels and tires and get the wheels powder coated a different color but no clue what I would do, probably just need to order up a proper set of 3 piece wheels for it.

Now that the cars ready for a track day to test, I havent been able to get to one to get it on track locally......few more weeks.

Sean

 

[petmotel]

Always liked gold or bronze colored wheels with a black car.

Jay

 

[hackster]

Seems track days are going to elude me a bit right now so I just kept on trucking.

I sat and starred at the upper core support openings and wanted to find a clean and easy way to close up this area as much as I could. I had some ABS from another project just kicking around so I made a template and tried it out on the Passenger side first.

Continuing the theme of kind of an OEM+ look I think it turned out pretty good.

Drivers side went easier since I had a clue what I was doing early on.

I sacrificed a brand new door seal I had kicking around for the seat from the core support to the radiator. I actually think this cleaned up this entire front area quite a bit and added bonus is it should force just that much more air into the radiator at speed.

Trying to get all my little bugs worked out. I had previously done some IAT Testing after fitting the cold air scoop to the airbox and found the IAT had gone down from it pulling from behind the bumper, but I saw huge reductions in IAT Temps when I sealed up the opening around the filter so that it had to draw from the front of the car not the engine bay. Well, I was tired of looking at the Gorilla tape so I made a nice seal again from weather stripping and sealed up the back of the opening on the airfilter to the airbox.

I also made a ****ty tow strap attachment for the front of the car. I am 100% sure its not rated for what I am doing with it, but I think it should be enough to get towed off track if the car were ever to die.

I took it out for a little running around on Saturday before the rain moved in and it was great. If the stars align I should be able to try out the new cooling system on track this Friday the 18th.

Happy Monday!!

Sean

 

[Laminar]

Do you have any baffling on the sides or bottom of the radiator? That made a big difference for me. Also, you're inspiring me to better protect my air filter. I have mine positioned behind the fog light opening so it gets good air while moving, but there's nothing separating it from the engine bay so it heats up quick as soon as I stop.

 

[hackster]

Do you have any baffling on the sides or bottom of the radiator? That made a big difference for me. Also, you're inspiring me to better protect my air filter. I have mine positioned behind the fog light opening so it gets good air while moving, but there's nothing separating it from the engine bay so it heats up quick as soon as I stop.

I have baffling on the top and both sides of the Radiator essentially boxing in the airflow. I am technically still a bottom feeder but Ill be taking stuff with me to box in the lower part of the bumper to make it a front feeder in case I need to try it. I actually like the idea of the stock flap under the core support creating a low pressure area. If it works it makes a lot of sense to me and lots of cars are successful doing this (Corvettes, Supras, RX7)

I am not sure I posted up here exactly what my results were with the air filter but they were truly shocking to me.

I thought for some reason that I could pull the air from the backside of the bumper and get some clean, cooler air as its right by the opening for the radiator. I noticed a decrease in performance as the car got hotter. So in my search for getting that ironed out I did a little data review and tested out several things. I had the March box installed in the engine bay and the tube run to behind the front bumper. So this was my baseline as it was delivered from March without the scoop installed.

I was seeing temps (on a reasonable day I think it was around 80) upwards of 130 degrees, this is on the freeway with coolant temps around 190-195.

So I redid the intake tube, chopped up the scoop to fit with my setup and installed it next to the flap and behind the Mach 1 spoiler and the results were pretty good. I dropped down to around 110 degrees I believe, thats a pretty significant reduction.

But I know there was more to be had. I stopped at the Home Depot and picked up some Gorilla Tape and taped up the gap between the Filter and the March Housing and was shocked to see the temps drop like a rock. I was able to get the IAT to about 8 degrees over ambient.

Is this earth shattering, absolutely not, is it going to make another 30 hp because of it?? Nope. Will it make more power, absolutely, is it better for the engine? Yep. And anything I can do to help cooler air get into this turd the better.

I will say that the car runs substantially better with the cooler IAT temps and I will take much better care from here on out to filter placement and how well sealed up that area is from the engine bay. Will this setup suck in the rain?? Yep =)

I am curious what you try out on yours, it can only help.

I was on the waitlist for a few events coming up and just got the go ahead so its go time!!! Got to get all my **** ready to go for the weekend, 2 events this weekend and one next Friday. Sure hope that the mods all work.

Sean

 

[petmotel]

Nice work as always, that radiator and fan assembly are gorgeous! I'm interested to hear your results on track of the cooling mods, it's looking good from your initial results. Really glad you have again taken an interest in the car, I hope it's as fun to run as it looks like it should be.

I would be curious as to how the Fox stacks up compared to the Beamer, maybe you can give some comparative thoughts after the event. Surely the grip level from those huge meats on the Fox should give it quite an advantage in the corners?

Jay

 

[hackster]

Nice work as always, that radiator and fan assembly are gorgeous! I'm interested to hear your results on track of the cooling mods, it's looking good from your initial results. Really glad you have again taken an interest in the car, I hope it's as fun to run as it looks like it should be.

I would be curious as to how the Fox stacks up compared to the Beamer, maybe you can give some comparative thoughts after the event. Surely the grip level from those huge meats on the Fox should give it quite an advantage in the corners?

Jay

Thanks Jay!!

I really hope I am on the right track with the cooling situation cause at this point if it doesn't stay cool I am down to just making it a front feeder or revising the frontend of the car all together but I don't make much power and I don't think it should be that hard to keep cool.

The car is surprisingly fun to drive, the clutch, lightened flywheel and somewhat rowdy cam are not ideal from a stoplight but other than that the car is actually pretty nice to spend time in. So much so that I am contemplating putting a super basic radio and a couple of speakers in it so I at least have something to listen to.....I know it sounds rediculous but I really miss having at least some tunes on my street drives.

I havent ever had the ****fox working at 100% so I cannot answer that yet, but Ill be happy to provide some feedback after the weekend as long as all works well. I have found some significant weaknesses with the M2. The factory computer and nannies are bullshit. The car desperately needs some coilovers and camber plates a proper race seat and harnesses. I've gone through a set of front tires in just 4 track days burning up the outside edges. It has an outstanding engine, transmission, shifter and brakes. I really only used it cause the ****fox was dead so I am not really planning on doing any of that stuff but I know if I were to use it as a dedicated track toy, that's what it would need.

Sean

 

[petmotel]

That car would show you a lot more love if you didn't call it bad names! Sorry, couldn't help myself LOL!

BTW, great job on those little details, weather stripping in strategic spots and the ABS trim are very nice touches!

Jay

 

[hackster]

That car would show you a lot more love if you didn't call it bad names! Sorry, couldn't help myself LOL!

BTW, great job on those little details, weather stripping in strategic spots and the ABS trim are very nice touches!

Jay

Hahahahaha......You are probably right but its a fitting name and a term of endearment for me =) I dont think of it as a bad thing. You should see people laugh when they see the badge on the back.

What a weekend!!!

I had been on the wait list for 2 events for the weekend. Track day with an instructor for Friday with Cascade Sports Car Club and Time Trials on Sunday with the same club. Middle of last week I got confirmation that spots opened up and I could attend not one but both....so plugged away last week and got my **** all ready to go.

Friday was a great day, temps in the mid 80's. I got setup with a really good instructor who has lots of seat time in an old Mustang and a new mustang. Obviously he didnt know what to expect with me and the car so we took it slow the first session. I was running in the intermediate run group as they dont offer instructors in the advanced run groups......I think its really stupid and Ill elaborate more later.

We worked on my line a little bit the first session and he talked with me about some more trail braking in a few spots where the ass end of the car would get a little lose lifting for a corner entrance, there are 2 spots on track the car would do it and trail braking helped a lot.....I also found that just a less abrupt transition would keep the car settled just the same.

Zero issues with heat this first session.

Second session we ramped it up a bit, I was still getting comfortable in the car, especially with a passenger in there but we had fun and he again commented on my lines and helped me pick up some time in turn 6 and turn 12. The Car started to develop a backfire on downshifts so I jacked it up and tried to figure out what was going on. I spotted some damage on the drivers header and thought that might be it, even though the noise appeared to be higher on the engine...

Third session got into the grid to go out and the car wouldnt start, just click of the solenoid. Tapped on the solenoid, no go, checked the wiring, no go, rolled the car back and forth in gear and away we went!! We went out and he gave me some pointers the first few laps and we caught up with a boosted s2000 and had a riot the last 10 minutes of the session. I was able to run him down through the turns and he was able to pull me on 2 corners of the track. Mike the instructor had a great time and was just kind of riding along with me the last half of the session.

Mikes feedback was all positive, he said I was a great driver and recommended me for me ICSCC Racing license which is what I was going for that day. He also said he never wants to see me in that car or me in an intermediate run group again and that I was more than ready for Racing.

He complimented me on how well sorted the car was and how well it handled on track, very neutral and easy to drive but still able to run fast.

I ran 3 sessions on Friday the last one giving her the beans and she ran cool all day long. Highest I saw the temps was about 195 ish so about a 40+ degree temp drop from before.

A couple take aways from Friday. The car needs to be regeared. I was told that the rearend has 3.73's in it but I am on the limiter around 6500 RPM at 112 mph. That doesnt add up. So what it does is limits my top speed to about 114 MPH cause when I shift to 5th (OVERDRIVE) it doesnt pull at all. This is seriously limiting my lap times cause once I hit 114 or so it just is cruising. Down the back straight I am on the limiter before I am half way down the straight. I need a proper shift light, a proper Tach and a pad for my elbow.

So get the car home Friday afternoon and get it unloaded, get it into the shop and get to work. I pulled the drivers side header off to fix what I believed to be the damage that was causing the backfire and noise. What a PIA. I had to drop the steering rack, the exhaust etc to get the damn thing out. I am glad I did though cause if it wasnt a problem, it was going to be soon.

So cleaned up the area and put a little TIG weld on 2 spots to stop this from spreading further. I also clearanced the area on the K member that this was hitting so it doesnt happen again. I was running out of steam, went and got a new exhaust manifold gasket and got the header back on and decided to look around and see if I could see anything else.........sure as ****, there it was in the valley under the plenum there was a lower intake manifold bolt completely out of the hole laying right there next to it. I knew it was higher up in the engine....I didnt know that those were not a blind hole either. So I got it in and managed to get it tightened up and torqued all of the intake manifold bolts down, several of them were loose.

Saturday afternoon I got the car back together and loaded up on the trailer.

Sunday was EPIC. I got to run laps with my buddy Kev and his bad ass S10 (Its a lot faster than I am) and ran in the top 5 of our 20 car run group all day long. Car was getting faster and I was able to run consistent lap times in the last 2 sessions. Only issue I had all day was the steering rack bolts loosened up (not the first time this has happened) and the stupid thing wouldnt start again.

Temps were 94 when we finished up yesterday and the car had no issues at all dealing with it. All of that work over all of those months finally resolved the heating problems and the car ran nice and cool. I never saw temps get up to the 200 mark even after beating on it lap after lap for a 20 minute session. We only got a 40 minute break between our second and third session and again, no issues with heat. Im done with that saga for now.

Now I gotta figure out the RPM thing, how to make some more power and work on my driving. The car is an absolute monster in the turns, brakes never gave me a single issue all weekend long, no fade, consistent, able to go pretty deep before braking.

Thanks for following along these last few months with all the cooling drama. I dont think it was just one thing that made this all work, I think the radiator was a huge part of it though.

4 days till the next track night in America =)

Sean

 

[Laminar]

A couple take aways from Friday. The car needs to be regeared. I was told that the rearend has 3.73's in it but I am on the limiter around 6500 RPM at 112 mph. That doesnt add up. So what it does is limits my top speed to about 114 MPH cause when I shift to 5th (OVERDRIVE) it doesnt pull at all. This is seriously limiting my lap times cause once I hit 114 or so it just is cruising. Down the back straight I am on the limiter before I am half way down the straight. I need a proper shift light, a proper Tach and a pad for my elbow.

Awesome!!

You're right, the gearing numbers don't add up at all. With a 25.4" tire at 6500rpm in 4th with a 3.73, you should see 132mph. With a 4.10 you'd see 120mph. A 4.56 would be 108. Definitely something screwy between your tach, speedo, and rear gears.

Any idea what the no start cause was?

 

[hackster]

Awesome!!

You're right, the gearing numbers don't add up at all. With a 25.4" tire at 6500rpm in 4th with a 3.73, you should see 132mph. With a 4.10 you'd see 120mph. A 4.56 would be 108. Definitely something screwy between your tach, speedo, and rear gears.

Any idea what the no start cause was?

I believe it to be a mechanical issue. The Speedo on the dash was reading like 130...but GPS on Track Addict says top speed all weekend was 114.9....I trust it too as its accurate with the BMW and all my friends speeds.

My gut says the car has 4.10's in it and the Tach is off. I would love to see a data log of the Haltech from a session but cannot run the Laptop while on track...If I calculate it at 6300 RPM which I think is reasonable that would be 116 mph. If I run it at 3.73 that is like 131, seems a lot more reasonable.

Trying to figure out if I can calculate the rear gears without pulling the cover so I can order parts before taking it in.

Sean

 

[petmotel]

What are the transmission ratios, is there a huge RPM drop between 4th and overdrive? If the car will not be used for highway cruise, most Tremecs have a close ratio overdrive that makes 5th usable on track (.80 or .74 for instance).

Jay