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Discussion Starter #21
well, until I graduate college, I'm going to have to live with them. I'll do the adjusting work as 302blown mentioned, and probably order a panhard bar on Friday.

I feel better about adjusting the pinion angle, its just the damn swaybar that bothers me. I feel like it would snap before it bent into place. I'll try to swap the sides on the arms before I try muscling it in.
 

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Swapping arms wont help as the bracket is centered on the arm. Why dont you just put some washers on the swaybar to help take up the space instead of muscling it in.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
302blown said:
Swapping arms wont help as the bracket is centered on the arm. Why dont you just put some washers on the swaybar to help take up the space instead of muscling it in.
That's what I thought. Thanks fo rthe answer there. Still just about as much work, but now I can at least just measure the distance. Only other problem is that the bar flows in the path of the spring seat shaft. Maybe I should mount it on one side flush, and space the other side out?

Will spacing it retain some of its ability to work?
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Just got off the phone with Ryan @ GMS, he was really friendly and helpful about it, said the swaybar should fit on the inside (how?), and of course, to adjust the heim joints out. What a pain though.

I'll post about it once I try to fix, maybe late tonight or early tommorow
 

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Do you have adjustable uppers? I was going to get these weight jacker arms and adjustable uppers. But I would use them for drag racing with very little street use. Kinda worried to get them now though.
The adjustable uppers are important with this setup so you can change your pinion angle. If your angle is off, it will cause a vibration which has already been hit upon.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
stock uppers. I'm going to lengthen the lowers to lower the pinion angle back down.
 

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Chris_Red_V6 said:
and probably order a panhard bar on Friday.
Instead of throwing more money at the rear and not fixing your problem, ****ty control arms, why dont you take off the GMS arms and install the stock arms for the moment. Sell the GMS arms on ebay and get about $100. Take that $100 and the money you would spend on the panhardbar and get a set of decent arms. MM as standard "cosmeticly" damaged arms on their webpage for $175. That HAS to be cheaper then what you want to do. Or you can get a set of MM adjustable arms for less then $400, and I know a place that has them instock :p
 

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Discussion Starter #29
goduke said:
Instead of throwing more money at the rear and not fixing your problem, ****ty control arms, why dont you take off the GMS arms and install the stock arms for the moment. Sell the GMS arms on ebay and get about $100. Take that $100 and the money you would spend on the panhardbar and get a set of decent arms. MM as standard "cosmeticly" damaged arms on their webpage for $175. That HAS to be cheaper then what you want to do. Or you can get a set of MM adjustable arms for less then $400, and I know a place that has them instock :p

I've wanted a panhard anyways. This just might push it in front of getting the car tuned. I think the arms will be fine once I lengthen them and replace the bushings with something that will last.

The bar is too wide to fit the outsides, although I might squeeze it inside, and if that is too much, then mount it on the outside, and that should require less muscle
 

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whether or not he uses the GMS arms with decent urethane bushings or goes to MM lowers the bushings will still get hammered as the rear is flopping left and right stressing the bushings. Its apparent he likes the blast the turns and a panhard bar is the only thing that will fix that.

I just inspected my GMS lowers last night, so far they look fine and they have had several road races on them this year including summit point hyperfest last weekend.

Granted GMS products are a POS.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
are there any good dealers to get a MM PHB from? I know its cheaper to buy from a dealer than mm direct.

Also, about muscling in the bar, I think 2 in this thread have mentioned it, look up :)
 

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Discussion Starter #35
Glenn said:
Art Parts does pretty well on MM stuff. Drop him an email for a quick quote on his best price including shipping. [email protected]
Thanks for the heads up, guys, I've dispatched emails, we'll see how it goes.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
well, finally adjusted the length, both sides had to be lengthened an inch.

However, the bushings are starting to wallow out, I can't get the dimensions right now, but does anyone know? I'm in orlando now, still havent installed the panhard bar.

Another oddity is that I remember noticing the rear end wasn't centered under the car. IT seems the driver side is closer to the fender than the passenger side. Although it seemed like it was closer to center after myy drive tonight, would that be the bushings? The car did have a bit of wander to it, and I felt it may have been the rear end.
 

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Chris_Red_V6 said:
well, finally adjusted the length, both sides had to be lengthened an inch.

However, the bushings are starting to wallow out, I can't get the dimensions right now, but does anyone know? I'm in orlando now, still havent installed the panhard bar.

Another oddity is that I remember noticing the rear end wasn't centered under the car. IT seems the driver side is closer to the fender than the passenger side. Although it seemed like it was closer to center after myy drive tonight, would that be the bushings? The car did have a bit of wander to it, and I felt it may have been the rear end.
Seems like an inch is WAY too much to have to adjust the LCA's, but we won't comment on GMS arms. :rolleyes: You need to check the squareness of the rear axle by taking longitudinal and diagonal measurements from under the car. You can readjust the control arm length to get it square and use the PHB to center it. If you go to the MM website and download the K-member install directions you will have a great writeup on how to check your chassis for squareness.
 

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I wonder if you ever measured the stock length of the stock lower arms and adj the rod end length to match it, or if you put the gms lower in with the rod end fully in. An inch is nothing, the rod end is close to 2 inches long overall, and mine sticks out about an in. Probably wouldnt have been a problem if it was setup right from day one.

The bushings are starting to swell out and the car feels loose/sloppy for a reason, the rear end is moving side to side in hard turns, whether you have other brand arms or not with the rear moving around that much will kill any bushing. As far as the axle not being centered left to right in the car that is strickly a function of the upper arms as they locate the axle L-R and control its side to side movement. If you install a panhard bar that will make a huge difference keeping the axle from moving L-R but if the axle is not centered and you try to use the panhard bar to centered it you will only be fighting the uppers and cause severe bind which will also kill your bushings let along make handling suffer.

I dont mean to knock anyone, but parts are only as good as they are installed right, yeh GMS lower arms are a copy and arent the most quality, but seems like the installer is the issue here and not the arms. Like I've said before I have these arms on my Road racer and have been working great for me.
 

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Discussion Starter #39
302blown said:
I dont mean to knock anyone, but parts are only as good as they are installed right, yeh GMS lower arms are a copy and arent the most quality, but seems like the installer is the issue here and not the arms. Like I've said before I have these arms on my Road racer and have been working great for me.
Can't say I don't take offense to that, because there is no mention of adjusting arm length in the instructions, and out of the boxes the arms were adjusted all the way in. Just a lame call, IMO.

For a first time install on LCA's, and the arms adjusted all the way in out of the box, I just assumed that's what they wanted. When I called, they even said they were set right out of the box.

I have the panhard bar halfway installed, just waiting for my left arm to heal from the rest of the drama from these arms and a wheel lock llug that was stuck. I won't try to recenter it there, but I will resquare the axle, and adjust the perches so the car is level with a driver in.

All I need to know now is where to find a suitable set of replacement bushings. I wish I could find a set of 3 piece ones.
 

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The perches can not be adjusted by visual height. Use a tape measure and set the both to the same hieght, abviously you can adj them to tune the ride height but both sides must be the same. Now if you know someone with 4 corner weight scales then you can tweak the corner weights otherwise keep both sides the same.

Yeh, I have to admitt the instructions on most GMS stuff blows.

Heres how you square the rear front to back: First get the front wheels straight via the steering wheel and then run a string from the rear tire along side the front tire and back sure the front tires left and right are the same. Then measure the distance from the LR tirte to the LF tire and the same on the RF and RR. Adj lower arm length until the distance is the same. Keep in mind this is with the car at ride height on the ground no jacked up or on stands.

To get the rear centered left to right you will need adj upper arms. If you have them you can lengthen one side or the other or both to center the rear and tweak the pinion angle to around -3 or 4 deg down. If you dont have them and you have non-adj uppers then when you install the panhard bar you want to adj the bar so its slack when the rear is at ride height so it doesnt preload the rear to one side or another.

AL.
 
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