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When I ordered my Ron Davis radiator/fan setup I wanted maximum cooling. Had a long conversation with Ron with my situation.

I went with the older style brush Spal fans. They flow 100cfm more each than the brushless style. Downside is they pull more amps. Don't remember the exact difference, but I believe the amps are double. I'm running them on pwm so only when they are at full duty is when the amp difference is noticeable. In hind sight, I think I could have gotten away with the brushless fans. Always nice to have extra flow of needed though.
 

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1993 Mustang GT
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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
That's how I do mine.

AC on: 100% fan power
WOT or over 40MPH: fan off
Engine temp: 160-210 degrees = 70%-100% fan speed depending on temp.
I don't have a WOT or >MPH as an option on my controller, just fan temp kick on speed. I may try leaving the A/C wire disengaged and just rely on the temp kick on and see how that does. Having fans run 100% cruising on the highway at 75 just doesn't make sense to me.
 

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I don't have a WOT or >MPH as an option on my controller, just fan temp kick on speed. I may try leaving the A/C wire disengaged and just rely on the temp kick on and see how that does. Having fans run 100% cruising on the highway at 75 just doesn't make sense to me.
HOWEVER....depending on conditions, you could be in a situation where you start the car, the fans don't kick on for a while because the coolant is not up to temp, but you are needing/using A/C.
The A/C on with zero air pulling through the condenser is bad news. You can blow a line.
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
HOWEVER....depending on conditions, you could be in a situation where you start the car, the fans don't kick on for a while because the coolant is not up to temp, but you are needing/using A/C.
The A/C on with zero air pulling through the condenser is bad news. You can blow a line.
Copy that, I wasn't considering that situation. A/C comes on immediately this time of year. My days of driving around without A/C are long gone! thanks!
 

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My experience showing a stock(ish) clutch fan can cool a poked/stroked/higher compression engine, but that the details can matter a lot.

Engine: 427W, 10.7:1 [email protected] flywheel
  • 4.38" crank pulley, 5.2" fan/WP pulley - spins fan/water pump 30% slower than stock pulleys (5.8"/4.8".) Actually it's closer to 40% slower than stock Cougar pulleys (6.5"/4.8".)
  • 32 year old OEM standard duty fan clutch + new 9-blade "replacement" fan.
90 deg muggy day (hot for here): coolant 180-195F, up to 210F in heavy stop-n-go traffic. More than acceptable, however...
  • ordered and installed a "heavy duty" fan clutch (Hayden 2733 vs. OEM std duty 2723), at the same time added 1/2" spacer to put fan just protruding from edge of shroud, closer where it belongs (weird issue with available replacement fans.)
another 90 deg muggy day: coolant 178F typical, 183F maximum. On normal days it barely eclipses 178F on long drives.

Conclusion? Many ways to skin a cat? I have 2-row 1" aluminum Fluidyne radiator & Flowcooler water pump, stock fan shroud, no AC. Arguments can be made as to whether this setup would run with AC in AZ, but the 27F degree difference in peak coolant temperature seemed notable. Clutch fans wear out over time or heavy duty just works that much better for an underdrive setup, the reader can decide.
 

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I’m running a healthy 347 with a 4R70W, full accessory car. I also live in Phoenix. I have to pull air through a big arse trans cooler, A/C condenser and 2 row radiator. I tested a few different electric fan setups to no avail, this was in 110F ambient temperatures. The Derale unit is the only one that actually worked. I’ve programmed my fans to shut off at speeds above 50mph and the two rubber flaps on this fan shroud allow plenty of air through at highway speed with the fanson or off.

Save yourself time and $, do it right the 1st time and buy the best fan setup from the start.
I've really thought about doing this setup, but I'm not sure if it will clear my Vortech or the sharp 45° angle hose that comes off the top of the radiator.

Contour fans work great for me until it hits about 95 outside. Then in traffic I hit 220 real quick with AC on.

Edit, someone posted up about dual MKS or MKZ /Edge fans?. I need 26x18 to cover my core. These look pretty dang close.
 

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When I lived in Houston (more like south Katy) my Coupe had no issues what so ever. Car is a 5-spd car with a healthy NA 331 (457 fwhp) and AC. Cooling is a stock FoMoCo water pump, Fluidyne aluminum radiator (P/N FHP30-93MU), Mark VIII fan, and the dreaded "oh God it takes so long to get and his customer service is terrible" (I've never had an issue) DC Control FK75 fan controller. Car never hit over 185 deg (Autometer electric temp gauge) in traffic with the AC freezing me out. I have this setup on my TBird as well with the only difference being it has a Griffin radiator and the 351W which is also pretty healthy.

I will say that a buddy of mine battled a heat issue in his 86 GT for a couple summers and he ended up stumbling on the issue. He was power washing the engine bay and decided to pull the fan and shroud and backwashed the radiator on low pressure. Some crap from the radiator landed on the backside of the AC condenser. He then pulled the radiator and washed the AC condenser out on low pressure and all kinds of crap came out of it (dirt, small rocks, and other crap). Put it all back together and low and behold the car ran cooler and the AC worked alot better. Airflow = cooling...ha ha ha!!!

When I pulled the dash apart on the Coupe to replace the heater core I took a tooth brush and cleaned the AC evaporator core. Pulled a small pile of lint and dirt off of it and ever since the blower moves a lot more air. Food for thought there but only if you are willing to pull the dash apart which is not fun but can be done in a day.

Anyhow, good luck with that triple digit heat in AZ.
 

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Similar story to D Brune. Lived in Jacksonville FLA running at the time a 350HP convertible with AC. Griffin 2 row 1.25” each radiator. Engine oil cooler built into one tank not tranny cooler. 180F high flow thermostat, edelbrock high flow water pump and SPAL dual Efan. Ran great freezing me out never over 185F on dash.

Moved to TN built another car with 450hp same radiator etc but with Parts Geek Contour fan “supposedly” as good as SPAL. No way it’s as good. Cheap China knockoff maybe. $99 fan can’t compete with a $500 SPAL fan. you get what you pay for. I got 20yrs outta my SPAL, four years on this Contiur and it goes in the trash as soon as funds allow another SPAL. I have trouble holding 210F in 100F heat in TN with AC on With Contour.
 

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Similar story to D Brune. Lived in Jacksonville FLA running at the time a 350HP convertible with AC. Griffin 2 row 1.25” each radiator. Engine oil cooler built into one tank not tranny cooler. 180F high flow thermostat, edelbrock high flow water pump and SPAL dual Efan. Ran great freezing me out never over 185F on dash.

Moved to TN built another car with 450hp same radiator etc but with Parts Geek Contour fan “supposedly” as good as SPAL. No way it’s as good. Cheap China knockoff maybe. $99 fan can’t compete with a $500 SPAL fan. you get what you pay for. I got 20yrs outta my SPAL, four years on this Contiur and it goes in the trash as soon as funds allow another SPAL. I have trouble holding 210F in 100F heat in TN with AC on With Contour.
210* isn't hot and it's where the factory likes to see the coolant temp. Engine life is actually increased when running at 210 vs 180. The '94-'95 cars low speed fan does not kick on until 220* from the factory if I remember correctly. The 180* nonsense has carried over from the 60's. The other issue is the accuracy of aftermarket gauges. Not all are created the same. I find that my laptop connected to the car's computer shows an accurate reading via the factory coolant temp sensor.
 

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I never said I relied on factory gauges. In fact I often backup my data with use of IR measuring guns when checking specific areas if my engine and cooling system.
I know. I was just rambling to the crowd.
 

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My vote is for Contour fans. Fan controller of your choice with temp sensor for the fans in lower rad hose or discharge side of rad. For those that were wondering, the Contour used low speed (power fed through the thermoresistor first before going to the fan motors) when the A/C was operating.

I have OEM Contour fans, 180 t-stat and fan controller (OEM Contour relays) that kicks low speed on at 200-205. High speed would kick in at 215 and in 5 years has NEVER kicked high speed on.
 

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I know. I was just rambling to the crowd.
10-4. Ramble on further please about the 210F being factory desired. I’ve heard that before but have never seen documentation on it and fine it hard to convince myself on with the factory gauge in the Fox mustang with 180F in the middle of the temp range displayed.

Now in other cars YES I’d have to agree, a 1990s Camaro, a 2000’s Grand Cherokee and many more I am quite sure have 210F being smack dab in the middle temp spot on.

Its hard for me to visualize the engineers designing the gauge to be run at 5/8-3/4 toward max in our cars.

Ive heard many arguments that cars are more efficient warmer also.

Once mine gets over 210F I start searching for ways to get moving again and get more airflow thru the radiator fast.
 

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I just did 3 thermostat changes on 3 different engines. All were original factory when removed.

2009 gm 3.6 dohc 180*

2013 gm 5.3 190*

2017 gm 1.4 221* (2018 and newer were changed to cooler stats due to issue with high temps and hoses and parts cracking.)

IMO you can not just make a blanket statement that a certain temp is desired for all engines. I run a boosted sbf. Heat it the enemy when it comes to detonation.
 

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Font Slope Parallel Number Rectangle
 

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Discussion Starter · #59 ·
Per the above chart, the difference in bore wear between 180 and 200 is negligible. I don't believe auto manufacturers increased normal operating temps to improve performance or save engine wear, it was done for emission purposes. Modern engines last more miles now because of tighter tolerances by the factory and superior oil formulations that weren't present in the 60's. Just my .02 worth, and my personal preference if I want my engine to run at 180 vs. 190, 210, etc.
 

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Every single brand new car i've ever purchased in the last 20 years has run smack dab right at 210 degrees according to pulling the data through the OBD2 port. GM, Ford, Infiniti and a Honda. Doesn't matter if it's 5 degrees out, my two new DD's have always run right at 205-212 degrees right from day #1. However these are all Aluminum headed modern engines and i do beleive the higher temps could be desirable for catalytic efficiency as well. I've never actually seen any official documentation from Ford on the 5.0 as to optimum/desired 302 operating temp. I wonder if there is any coding in the ECU GFUB that might give a clue. I do recall conditions of operations being dependant on coolant temps. I'll take a peek later on.

I used to run my Fox with a 180 thermostat and it would run reliably at 185 degrees no matter what. In the spring/fall I never even needed the fan while moving to keep it at this temp. Drove it this way (with the 180 stat) for 20 years and when I tore it down for my build a couple years ago it looked pristine inside. based on the wear chart above, the difference between 180 and 200 really is negligible. I stuck a motorcraft stock tstat (192*) back in and now the car runs around 195-200 degrees. I might swap the 180 back in but i'm not losing sleep over it. I do have high-flow cats so maybe I should keep the warmer tstat in to protect them. Here in the northeast we just don't have the brutal heat that you folks in the south do. Other than the occasional heatwave, our temps are reasonable in the summer. I've done cruises where I am always moving and the Efan never even has to come on. When it does come on, I have my contour fan set to 70% max RPM and that's usually enough to keep it cool idling on a hot (for MA) day. Of course, everyone's experience is going to differ based on where they live and other factors.

I'm gonna go dig around to see if i can find documentation. Indy emailed me a bunch of stuff a long time ago I can sort through.
 
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