[Mustang5L5]

The stock OE style fan clutch should easily cool the car in 100* temps. If that's not cutting it, an E-fan won't either.

I think you should investigate your current setup first.

 

[Mustang5L5]

Do you think that folks are imagining their cooling issues?

All I meant was he should take a look at his current setup first and make sure it's working properly before firing the parts cannon off.

 

[Mustang5L5]

I have the contour fan with the LMR bracket kit. It really does a nice job in mounting the fan and getting full coverage of the radiator. But so far this year on the warm days we've had, with the AC on, it has had no problem keeping my car cool. Granted, my Summer heat is probably not comparable to what you'd see in TX.

A million ways to wire these fans up. I'm using an Infiniti PWM fan controller on mine.

 

[Mustang5L5]

can you tell me more about your infinity fan controller? thay sounds really cool
pun intended

there’s a thread on the Holley EFI tuningforum about it.

PWM- fan controller

I think I misunderstood what controller you were referring to. Got a link to what you have?

www.corral.net

It’s an OEM fan controller that comes on many types of vehicles so they can be had cheaply. There’s actually a variety of PWM controllers that can be used. Not just that one.

The issue that prevents many from using them is that it is not standalone. It’s meant to work with a ECU that can generate a PwM signal. right off the bat that excludes a lot of folks from using them.

 

[Mustang5L5]

Is the consensus that I should wire in the fans to kick on 100% when A/C is engaged?

That's how I do mine.

AC on: 100% fan power
WOT or over 40MPH: fan off
Engine temp: 160-210 degrees = 70%-100% fan speed depending on temp.

 

[Mustang5L5]

Every single brand new car i've ever purchased in the last 20 years has run smack dab right at 210 degrees according to pulling the data through the OBD2 port. GM, Ford, Infiniti and a Honda. Doesn't matter if it's 5 degrees out, my two new DD's have always run right at 205-212 degrees right from day #1. However these are all Aluminum headed modern engines and i do beleive the higher temps could be desirable for catalytic efficiency as well. I've never actually seen any official documentation from Ford on the 5.0 as to optimum/desired 302 operating temp. I wonder if there is any coding in the ECU GFUB that might give a clue. I do recall conditions of operations being dependant on coolant temps. I'll take a peek later on.

I used to run my Fox with a 180 thermostat and it would run reliably at 185 degrees no matter what. In the spring/fall I never even needed the fan while moving to keep it at this temp. Drove it this way (with the 180 stat) for 20 years and when I tore it down for my build a couple years ago it looked pristine inside. based on the wear chart above, the difference between 180 and 200 really is negligible. I stuck a motorcraft stock tstat (192*) back in and now the car runs around 195-200 degrees. I might swap the 180 back in but i'm not losing sleep over it. I do have high-flow cats so maybe I should keep the warmer tstat in to protect them. Here in the northeast we just don't have the brutal heat that you folks in the south do. Other than the occasional heatwave, our temps are reasonable in the summer. I've done cruises where I am always moving and the Efan never even has to come on. When it does come on, I have my contour fan set to 70% max RPM and that's usually enough to keep it cool idling on a hot (for MA) day. Of course, everyone's experience is going to differ based on where they live and other factors.

I'm gonna go dig around to see if i can find documentation. Indy emailed me a bunch of stuff a long time ago I can sort through.

 

[Mustang5L5]

Something more modern:

The effect of cylinder liner operating temperature on frictional loss and engine emissions in piston ring conjunction

Despite extensive research into alternative methods, the internal combustion engine is expected to remain as the primary source of vehicular propulsio…

www.sciencedirect.com

It's very technical. If I had to extract anything from it, perhaps 80C (176F) - 100C (212F) is a reasonable trade-off for emissions & frictional losses, but others may read it and infer something else. YMMV.

So just to expand further, we are arguing a 10-15 degree window in terms of coolant temps. So what’s the benefit of running an engine at the colder end of that range? Let’s say 190 degrees vs 205?

Assuming a cooling system robust enough to maintain temp confidently and eliminating the effects of heat soak, would there be a HP difference running an engine at 190 degrees vs running the same combo at 205 degrees?

 

[Mustang5L5]

I just looked at specs and I think one of the newer Dodge Charger fans will fit for my 31x19 with 26x18 core. $135. I bet it’s better than the contour one designed to cool a 200hp car. Might go pick one up and see.

I've been reading about these as well. Lots of folks seem to be using these and the good thing is they are newer enough that you can pick up OEM fans vs a knockoff. USED OE fans are in the $100-150 range it seems. I think the range is 2009 to 2020 Challenger.

 

[Mustang5L5]

Could be well worth the try at those prices. Any leads on where to get OEM fan version? I want to know that I know that I know it’s a real and high performance fan Designed to cool that Dodge HP level.

ANy of the Mopar parts house sites can get it, along with the dealer.

I believe this is the part number for the 09-20 single fan unit. Mopar 68050129AA

2009-2022 Mopar Radiator Cooling Fan Module 68050129AA Mopar | JCDR Parts (jeepchryslerdodgeramparts.com)


EBay has used ones. I am seeing a few in the $100 and less range. I am not buying one at this time however because my Contour fan is currently meeting my needs.

 

[Mustang5L5]

Did some more reading on a slow AM.

Lots of challenger guys upgrade the single fan to the dual fan unit. Single fan is refered to as "heavy duty cooling" and the dual fan unit is "extreme duty cooling". They fit the same radiator so I imagine the dimensions are similar.

Dual fan unit comes on 2011-2014 Dodge Challenger SRT8's (looks like other years/models as well). Unfortunately I can't find a single part number for the fan as an assembly. But it looks like this
20 DODGE CHALLENGER 6.4L RADIATOR FAN ASSEMBLY 68236868AB | eBay


That's as far as i'll look into this. Someone else will have to get some dimensions and see how well they fit the fox radiator. I hear the single fan fits quite well, no idea about the dual fan

 

[Mustang5L5]

From what I'm reading on the challenger boards, the dual fan is a direct bolt on replacement for the single. Even looking at the pics, the mounting tabs do look identical.

I think i'm going to set up a few searchs on Ebay and wait for a used OE unit

 

[Mustang5L5]

And for reference, the contour fan dimensions as some folks have this now so they can visualize the fit. It looks like the challenger fan would fit quite well and slightly thinner (single fan). Looking for dual fan dimensions

 

[Mustang5L5]

delete

 

[Mustang5L5]

Heres what i found from this thread on the dual-fan Dodge fans

Overcooling? | LX Forums Forum

The dual fan shroud is the same. 2005 to present. The motors do change. There are three.

• 05137714AA XDK, Standard Duty, 2100rpm - Left upper side on all shrouds
• 05072330AB NMS, Severe Duty, 2695rpm, Right / lower side
• 05170746AA XDL Severe Duty II, 3090rpm, Right / lower side

The upper fan motor is the same on all the dual-fan setups. The SRT8's, police chargers, and 2015+ Scatbacks (and some chryslers/jeeps) all got the dual fan with the middle motor above mounted on the bottom. The 3090 RPM motor came on other models (and cars headed to desert regions) but will fit into that bottom spot. I don't know if they will fit in both locations on the shroud

The concern is amperage. Apparently these motors pull 25 amps each while running. Anecdotal claim however.

I think this is an OEM 05 SRT8 dual fan and might be adequate for the job. I would double check first before taking my word on it. Looks like $190 shipped which is fantastic for a new OEM fan. Again, just double check before ordering.

5170741AA - Genuine Mopar Motor-Radiator Fan (moparpartsgiant.com)



That's about all i'll dig into this right now. I have a few sub-$100 fans on ebay on my watch list. Maybe i'll buy one and play around with it.

 

[Mustang5L5]

If I read that thread correctly it was 25a each at startup.

Not sure i trust that figure. I've measured the current draw on my Contour fans using a meter and the motors draw ~60 amps EACH on startup if I use a standard on/off relay and just flip them on. Only lasts 1/2 second or so before settling down. At max speed, the 2 motors draw 25 amps combined.

I wired my fans using a soft-start PWM controller to avoid the high spike, but I would like to see some confirmed current numbers for the Dodge fan unit at max speed while running to make sure my 130A can handle it. I can measure it, but I need a fan first.

Not quite committed to changing out my Contour fan yet. As of right now it's doing the job.

 

[Mustang5L5]

The SPAL fans really draw 48 amps while running? Even that's nothing to sneeze at.

 

[Mustang5L5]

What year focus is that fan from?

i agree that the contour fan does fit the fox radiator quite well. I wonder if there are any other OEM motor options that would swap into the shroud similar to how the dodge guys are swapping in higher power motors into the srt8 shroud.

 

[Mustang5L5]

I want a bigger shroud I have a larger 26x18 core. The contour fan leaves a big gap on the bottom which drives me nuts.

The mounting brackets from LMR do a really good job at improving the fit. They bolt on the top and bottom of the shroud. I can see if i can get a measurement as I need to pull the whole assembly out to swap out my PS pulley. But it adds about 3" to the top and bottom.

The bottom portion fits into some S clip and the top mounts flush against the top of the radiator. No contact on the fins (so no vibration to wear the core and cause leaks) but every inch of the radiator is covered.

To mount, you drop the fan assembly down from the top and slip the bottom bracket into the S-clips. Top is held in place by two bolts into some speed clips on the radiator. It's a pretty clean install if you don't mind spending the $99 for the brackets.

In case you are wondering what the bottle is, i run a remote PS fluid setup with my hydroboost. Helps with fluid surging and avoiding leaks.

 

[Mustang5L5]

That fits your radiator well, mine has gaps on the sides and a 3" exposed core on the bottom.

Ah, I understand now. Well looks like others have a decent pic of the fan mounting on a stock dimensioned radiator for future reference.


------------------


I'd be curious to see what the 5-blade focus fan blade would do for CFM. No idea how the pitch compares to the others. Might be worthwhile to eliminate all the variables and test out all 3 blades on one of the single contour (or focus) motors and just switch the blade. That would eliminate differences from the shroud, and differences in the motors (if they exist) by keeping as many variables the same. It does appear that the focus and contour motors are similar, but in looking them up they have different part numbers. Different motor specs? or something like a motor plug in a different orientation.

Too bad you can't locate the blades separately. You could swap two of the 11-blade units onto the contour fan if it showed an increase of X cfm. It looked like going from contour to focus 11-blade was a 500 cfm jump roughly on one fan.

Of course, increased load on the motors does result in increased current, especially on startup if you are not using a controller with soft-start ability. All this needs to be played with the tested out.

 

[Mustang5L5]

It seems that Ford discovered something with blade density. Less is more?

Just spitballing, but I don't think there is a one size fits all answer for this. I know that stall is a huge concern with fans. Having the biggest fan in the world won't matter if you can't draw the air through the radiator/condenser/intercooler fast enough and this huge negative pressure causes almost the same effect as when you cavitate a boat prop and it doesn't go anywhere. I know Ford tends to use similar motors on similar contemporary fans, so the blade design/numbers/angles might be a way of using a smaller variety of motors in different configurations with different/pressure velocity needs. Also without understanding the pitch angles and fan diameter, it would be hard to understand which blade designs are more efficient or move more air. Noise would also be a consideration.

I don't know for sure, just throwing out some thoughts.