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what intake are you running?
Pro-M 351 Intake

See post 43 for a pic of where I mounted my FF sensor.

Looking at picture I see no screws in the mount holes. Was this picture taken before you screwed it through the floor? I suppose one would want to drill 4 holes and pass small bolts through with lock washer / washer as self tap screws would eventually give out.
 

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Pro-M 351 Intake



Looking at picture I see no screws in the mount holes. Was this picture taken before you screwed it through the floor? I suppose one would want to drill 4 holes and pass small bolts through with lock washer / washer as self tap screws would eventually give out.
same as mine. i got a perfect setup for you. ill take pics tomorrow.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Looking at picture I see no screws in the mount holes. Was this picture taken before you screwed it through the floor? I suppose one would want to drill 4 holes and pass small bolts through with lock washer / washer as self tap screws would eventually give out.
Good observation. This pic was taken during the installtion. The bolts are in the front holes at this point (but can't be seen) but the rear ones weren't yet.

I agree with your concern about self tap screws. I used small hex cap bolts going up through the floor and nylock nuts in the car under the carpet.

The foor pan isn't totally flat in this area so I made some spacers to level it too.
 

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Welp. that's a whole lot cleaner than my envisioned setup.

I put this together to weld it against my subframe. Think i'll go with your option instead :p

Gas Machine Metal Asphalt Font
 

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John / kjb

got a built forged 427w race engine with 10:3.1 compression - Do you think this flex fuel sensor will be enough to run a blower.. maybe a ysi? @ say .. 8 psi non inter-cooled?
 

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John / kjb- got a built forged 427w race engine with 10:3.1 compression - Do you think this flex fuel sensor will be enough to run a blower.. maybe a ysi? @ say .. 8 psi non inter-cooled?
The sensor doesn't have anything to do with whether it can run the power from the blower. It just measures the gas/alcohol content in the fuel then the computer adjusts the tune accordingly.
You need two tunes: 1. A regular gas tune and 2. a tune on E85 or whatever alcohol fuel you'll be running. The sensor tells the computer how much gas/alcohol is being read and the computer "blends" the two different tunes accordingly, so it comes down to the tune more than the sensor.

Here's a block that I made for my sensor. I tee'd it off the line b/c I didn't want the -6 connectors to be a restriction from the -8 line I use and it's located in the front fender.

ks
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
The sensor doesn't have anything to do with whether it can run the power from the blower. It just measures the gas/alcohol content in the fuel then the computer adjusts the tune accordingly.
You need two tunes: 1. A regular gas tune and 2. a tune on E85 or whatever alcohol fuel you'll be running. The sensor tells the computer how much gas/alcohol is being read and the computer "blends" the two different tunes accordingly, so it comes down to the tune more than the sensor.

Here's a block that I made for my sensor. I tee'd it off the line b/c I didn't want the -6 connectors to be a restriction from the -8 line I use and it's located in the front fender.

ks
I was under the impression that Layzie was asking if the sensor assembly could flow enough fuel to support his engine, to which the answer is yes.

What you said about needing two tunes and the computer blending them isn't quite accurate as far as the Pro-M EMS goes. There is still only one "tune." There is simply an additional Ethanol Spark 3D table which is a spark adder to the base spark table. Whatever numbers you put in there, or a percentage of them, will be added to the base spark table based on the percentage of ethanol detected by the sensor. How that spark percentage is calculated is configurable, but the default setting is 100% of the adder for 100% ethanol ramping down linearly to 0% adder for 12% ethanol.

As an example, let's say at load of 1.5 and 6000 rpm your base spark commands 20 degrees of advance. (I'm making up round numbers here for simplicity. These aren't intended to be realistic. Ignore any modifiers for ECT and ACT.) If flex fuel controls are disabled, you will get 20 degrees of spark advance. Now let's say you enable the FFcontrols and pump some ethanol into the tank. The out-of-the-box Ethanol Spark table is completely filled with 1s so let's just use that. IF you somehow managed to have 100% ethanol in that tank, your new spark advance would be 21 because 100% ethanol will give you 100% of the adder, and the 1.5|6000 cell has a 1 in it. Now, realisticaly, you won't have 100% ethanol. Let's say the sensor reads E70. If you do out the math, you'll find that 70% ethanol will give you 65.9% of the adder. Therefore, your total spark advance will be 20.659 degrees.

Adjusting the values in the 3D Ethanol Spark table and adjusting the start and stop points for the spark adder % ramping to suit your tastes are the only things to do. No second tune.

Personally, I don't like 100% being the max point since I don't run anything other than pump E85. If I raced with E98, I could see it. Since I don't, I think setting the max to 80% is more appropriate. I get the full amount of the Ethanol Spark table added to base spark at any ethanol percentage over 80%. So, using the above example, at E70 I would get 85.3% of the adder rather than 65.9%.
 

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Thanks John.

Yes the pro-m system will only ever use / modify one tune. Ever.

The best way to explain this for e85 is as Chris explained to me.

You can literally keep your engine running while you fill up with e85 and watch the tune LIVE as it makes corrections before the fuel goes Into the injector ( assuming the sensor was Installed on the feed side before injectors)

Disclaimer: it is not recommended to pump gas into a live running engine.

Now. If the sensor is installed AFTER the inj or on return line, then I assume one may have some noticable pinging for a few seconds .
 

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Not much to ad, but I love running E85, so easy, I like the auto adjustments for whatever the mixture, I've noticed air temps comparable to what I was getting with water/meth under boost, my cold starts are a little harder, but I've also switched from a ID1050x to a Deatchwerks 1500, might have to add the trigger wheel for one click starts, I've been lazy and not in any kind of mood to work on the car
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
In the summer I notice no difference, but starting in the cold is definitely harder for me with high ethanol concentrations. And I have a crank position sensor (modular engine).

Chris suggested I try about E50. I got close at E49. Starting was much easier. Just a tad more cranking than gasoline.
 

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On my setup e85 becomes harder to start when the temps start dropping. I'm talking about 30* and below. I have mine starting in 10* weather now with no issue with e85.

Not a ProM user. Does it have a temp/crank fuel setting? If so, just keep adding fuel to it lights off. Don't be shy. I also added a degree or 2 to the cranking timing table.
 

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In the summer I notice no difference, but starting in the cold is definitely harder for me with high ethanol concentrations. And I have a crank position sensor (modular engine).

Chris suggested I try about E50. I got close at E49. Starting was much easier. Just a tad more cranking than gasoline.
great tip John thanks. For some reason ive only been getting e50 out of the tank. i think thats about 100 octane anyway
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
On my setup e85 becomes harder to start when the temps start dropping. I'm talking about 30* and below. I have mine starting in 10* weather now with no issue with e85.

Not a ProM user. Does it have a temp/crank fuel setting? If so, just keep adding fuel to it lights off. Don't be shy. I also added a degree or 2 to the cranking timing table.
Yes, there is a cranking fuel table with lambda vs ECT.
 

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Oh here we go.🍿
 
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