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Discussion Starter · #61 ·
if it is the rms, take it out again if it's really bothering you, put it in a stand, remove the oil pan, remove, the rear bearing cap, remove the old rms, install a repair sleeve, install a regular felpro seal, put some black silicone on the outer edge of the bearing cap, install the bearing and cap, torque to spec, install a blue fel pro oil pan gasket, tighten the bolts.

use permetex #2 on the flywheel bolts and torque to spec.

Thats if it is the rms leaking of course.

How are you venting this engine?
I am using the anderson valve covers that are vented to a catch can. It is bone dry but someone mentioned that I could need a vacuum evac system? I have never heard of anything like this so I am currently investigating that.


If this engine builder spent 15 minutes with me and actually suggested some of these ideas I am getting here from you guys then this post would probably have never happened. That is what some people are missing, my point is the customer service and help side, non-existent from this company.


If you own a business and call me annoying like the dude in the above post said, then sorry you should not be in this business....
 

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Discussion Starter · #62 ·
I used loctite on mine. No leaks...yet.

I guess the question is whether or not you'll have to pull the trans/flywheel to take a look at the RMS and see if that's the cause of the leak. My bet is that it is.




Oil leaks drive me batshit crazy, so I can understand how you must feel. One of the motivating factors for my recent build was just to address all the leaks on the original 33-year old engine.
Yep, I am with you and agree. The response I got from the company was we already replaced the RMS and oil pan gasket there is NO way that can be the issue. yea great troubleshooting, thanks!
 

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Like I said, drop 12k, get no reply to your emails and then let me know how you would feel. I have done a lot of business with many companies over the years and there are the ones that are your friends before you pay them and ehhhhh not so much after (whether or not things go bad) and then there are the ones that treat you well before during and after no matter what they make time.

Ask yourself this, if someone cannot tend to a "small" annoying issue like this, what would they do if there were something more serious going on with your engine??? Rod knock or small oil leak they should all be treated the same way.
From what you wrote, the second time you emailed him saying it leaked again he said “find the leak.” We’re there more emails after this? Because it kind of seems like he pretty much answered every question you asked him.

The guy charged you $500 to put together a whole engine using a mixture of parts you bought, and some he did. Seems like a decent deal, and at this point There’s literally nothing he can do to help you because of the distance.
 
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Discussion Starter · #64 ·
From what you wrote, the second time you emailed him saying it leaked again he said “find the leak.” We’re there more emails after this? Because it kind of seems like he pretty much answered every question you asked him.

The guy charged you $500 to put together a whole engine using a mixture of parts you bought, and some he did. Seems like a decent deal, and at this point There’s literally nothing he can do to help you because of the distance.
Nothing after that last email, yea man, you are right I am pretty much on my own because I guess if you can't fix it the first time then any other attempts would probably be a waste. I just feel that more should/could have been done aside from "find the leak". Customer service can be exactly that, or it can be caring about your customers after you pay them and spenging some time with them and trying to help. Doing a 180 on your communication and assistance after a problem occurs is a red flag indicator of character and integrity in my honest opinion.....
 

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Like I said, drop 12k, get no reply to your emails and then let me know how you would feel. I have done a lot of business with many companies over the years and there are the ones that are your friends before you pay them and ehhhhh not so much after (whether or not things go bad) and then there are the ones that treat you well before during and after no matter what they make time.

Ask yourself this, if someone cannot tend to a "small" annoying issue like this, what would they do if there were something more serious going on with your engine??? Rod knock or small oil leak they should all be treated the same way.
You are too hung up on thinking you are owed so much because you spent 12k. This day and age 12k for a complete motor is not very much in the grand scheme.

He did tend to this small issue. He came over to YOUR house and repaired. Unfortunately for both of you the repair wasn't successful. But as a business, he probably isn't going to keep attempting repair. If he doesn't want to keep repairing, he probably isn't going to respond to your emails/calls either.

I'm not saying that you should be ignored, but this is the reality of the situation and world we live in.

Take the engine out and tell him you are bringing it to him. I'm sure he will respond then.
 

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Discussion Starter · #67 ·
You are too hung up on thinking you are owed so much because you spent 12k. This day and age 12k for a complete motor is not very much in the grand scheme.

He did tend to this small issue. He came over to YOUR house and repaired. Unfortunately for both of you the repair wasn't successful. But as a business, he probably isn't going to keep attempting repair. If he doesn't want to keep repairing, he probably isn't going to respond to your emails/calls either.

I'm not saying that you should be ignored, but this is the reality of the situation and world we live in.

Take the engine out and tell him you are bringing it to him. I'm sure he will respond then.
Ha yea that is some business model, do some work, it doesn't work out and then just wash my hands of the situation. When I pay for something I expect to get what I paid for not 1% less not 50% less, I want 100%.

I respect your opinion and discussion on this and I am not pissed off one way or the other but it is just differing of opinion. To me it is like you are saying you buy a new car and there is a scratch and the dealer shrugs his shoulders and says eh it would have happened at some point anyway....and then when you complain and make a stink they just shrug you off saying we have more important things to deal with, it is just a scratch...
 

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Ha yea that is some business model, do some work, it doesn't work out and then just wash my hands of the situation. When I pay for something I expect to get what I paid for not 1% less not 50% less, I want 100%.

I respect your opinion and discussion on this and I am not pissed off one way or the other but it is just differing of opinion. To me it is like you are saying you buy a new car and there is a scratch and the dealer shrugs his shoulders and says eh it would have happened at some point anyway....and then when you complain and make a stink they just shrug you off saying we have more important things to deal with, it is just a scratch...
Yeah, but technically in this scenario the scratch has happened after you brought the car home and ran it awhile lol.
 

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1st are saying you paid this guy $12k for a shortblock and fully asse.ble the engine?

2nd. Find the leak! If it is the rear main it should be slung all around the crank and on the back side of the flywheel. Also check your cam galley plugs.

Crankcase pressure will actually help seal by putting pressure on the lip of the seal. Then when the seal is relaxed it may weep. How many qts of oil are you running in it? If you try running it with 5qts and there is no leak? Then it is a weeping issue. This will determine if the issue is under pressure or relaxed.
 

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Somewhere I read where thread sealant is not designed to work on "Rotating Masses"..... I also read ( probably on this site) that Ford motor racing recommended using Permatex on the flywheel bolts, not loctite...
 

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Here’s my take. I have a shop but i’m not a machine shop so its a little different….

If we assembled the motor as he did, we’d also be installing it. Once in, if you took it home and found the leak as you have now, i’d say drop the car off us. Give me a couple days to check it out, find the problem, and fix said issue. If you then moved across the country and had the issue happen again, i’d say ship it back to us and we’ll keep it until we’re for sure the leak is fixed. Labor is free or “under warranty” so to say. Unfortunately since you moved away, you’d be paying out of pocket to ship it back. Now if it was some kind of crazy leak where it looks like a gallon of spilled milk, i’d split the cost of shipping the car back or pay for it outright. Either way i’d find a way to work with the customer getting it resolved.

Now here’s the main difference. In my scenario, you would have paid labor for the engine installation. This entitles you to a perfectly working setup in that car. We would have installed the flywheel, accessories, designed a PCV system, done a break in ect. And made sure it wasnt leaking when it left. Now the leaking is on us when it happens.

With you only paying $500 for final assembly of a long block, you’re getting into a grey area with that leak. He wasnt in control of final installation into the car. He also didnt have control of the PCV system which more than likely is causing the issue. If you’re rings are gapped for boost you can end up with more crank case pressure. Crank case pressure has to go somewhere. You can have the best seals on the motor and oil will still push past them if you have too much pressure. For all he knows he could continue to put new rear mains in it and continue to have them fail if the above scenario was true (which is something outside of his control). This is also why when we do a build, we do the FULL build. So we dont end up running into a situation like this. We have full control of all the variables.
 

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First of all, SBF engines or any engines don't leak oil just because "they all leak oil", that is nonsense. If they are leaking, there is a reason. No doubt that once you introduce aftermarket parts, blocks, pans, the chance of things leaking goes up. I have a 408W that is 5 years old and you could not find a trace of oil on the outside of it. On the other hand I assembled a 383 SBC stroker and it drips oil out the front of the pan.

Your engine leaks. Your builder came over and attempted to repair it. That is more than most people would even offer. It still leaks and he said take it out and he would fix it again, he is still standing by it. It is not his fault you moved across the country or wherever you did. Take him the engine and he will do it again. It is that simple. Not much more he can do or you can expect out of him. Now the way I read it is he assembled the engine and you installed it? That is why he is telling you to take the engine out of the car. I would think if he assembled and installed the engine into the car then he would be willing to do the pulling and repair.

Unless you are going to pull the engine and take it to him, you are expecting too much. It is that simple.

Your idea of taking it to a shop and having him split the bill? I would probably forget that.

Communication is probably bad because he thinks you are annoying him about a drip of oil and hope you will just leave him alone.
Are your motors boosted? Because if not youre comparing apples to *******s. These engines are notorious for leaking there with boost, its not a coincidence
 

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I am using the anderson valve covers that are vented to a catch can. It is bone dry but someone mentioned that I could need a vacuum evac system? I have never heard of anything like this so I am currently investigating that.


If this engine builder spent 15 minutes with me and actually suggested some of these ideas I am getting here from you guys then this post would probably have never happened. That is what some people are missing, my point is the customer service and help side, non-existent from this company.

If you own a business and call me annoying like the dude in the above post said, then sorry you should not be in this business....
If you've got a PCV set up, that functions right you don't need an evac system.
You wouldn't need to remove pan to install crank sleeve and new rear main seal, hadn't heard of putting RTV on rear main cap, but if it's not leaking from there may not be necessary.
 

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It is what it is, at then end of the day I know what is going to happen. I am going to chase the leak, pull it all apart and find where it is coming from and at that point engine builder will say well it can't be that because I already fixed that or whatever and judging from the communication I have gotten since the first leak and responsiveness it won't go well. Like I said, I am not sure what could happen, what should happen blah blah, I was just curious what other people think or have experienced.

Maybe the moral of the story is, when you pay someone to do something take some time and have a serious discussion about the things that "may" happen and how they would resolve them. What is their responsibility or what falls under the category of "not much we can do".

Like I said, when I shell out that much money for something I expect it to be perfect. Not much more I can say here so take it for what it is worth and question/set expectations before you commit to anything.....
You didn't even look for the leak yet, but you know what the builder is going to say?

Find the leak and contact him.

Unfortunately he is not going to fix it when you moved 1200 miles away.
 

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If you've got a PCV set up, that functions right you don't need an evac system.
You wouldn't need to remove pan to install crank sleeve and new rear main seal, hadn't heard of putting RTV on rear main cap, but if it's not leaking from there may not be necessary.
i just put a little on the outside edge of the cap where it sits on the block. i feel its good good practice and doesn't hurt anything.

anything that's exposed to the rear of the block.

you can do a rms and sleeve in the car. i suggested yanking it out since he's so good at it now lol!

all jokes aside, pull it out, do everything, check, everything, stud everything, new oil pan, rms procedure i listed, use the permetex #2 on flywheel holes, redo the intake, use right stuff on the china rails, use studs on the intake.

I did 16 ford engines last year, 2/3 were mustang pushrod. i did the exact same thing to every single one of them.
 

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You're getting bent out of shape about that little drop on the floor? I understand you paying a professional engine builder but I wouldn't make a federal case of that if it were mine, it's not like it threw a rod through the block on first start-up. Many things on these engines could inherently leak a bit even new, looking for leaks during a dyno break-in is a pretty routine exercise. If the builder had installed and test ran the engine in your car and still gave it back leaking then you might have something.
 

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Discussion Starter · #80 ·
You didn't even look for the leak yet, but you know what the builder is going to say?
Yes I am judging from how I was treated up to this point and the nature of the situation. Especailly when he kept telling me there is NO way it can be leaking from the oil pan or RMS since he already replaced that....
You're getting bent out of shape about that little drop on the floor? I understand you paying a professional engine builder but I wouldn't make a federal case of that if it were mine, it's not like it threw a rod through the block on first start-up. Many things on these engines could inherently leak a bit even new, looking for leaks during a dyno break-in is a pretty routine exercise. If the builder had installed and test ran the engine in your car and still gave it back leaking then you might have something.
You bet I am making a federal case if I had known I would have a "professionally" built (HEAVY ON THE QUOTES) engine then I would not have paid that kinda money, I would have just built it myself.

It is a brand new casting with brand new parts. Would you be upset if your new car was leaking a drop? I think most people would. Perhaps it would be a different story if it was a machined used block, used oil pan, blah blah blah. So YES I am bent outta shape.
 
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