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Discussion Starter #1
Hello to all reading,

Before I ask my question, I feel it prudent to proceed with the other details of my build. The information is as follows:

Short Block: All is fully balanced and blueprinted
2001 Navigator 5.4 Cast block bored 0.020" over
D.S.S. Racing Extreme X Pistons w/ 4cc dish
4340 Forged H Beam Connection Rods
Forged 8 Bolt Crank - Fully Prepped
Speedpro Bearings
Federal Mogul Rings
ARP Main Studs
D.S.S. Main Girdle

Heads:
Navigator 4V heads
Stock valves
Fully Ported
Combustion Chamber bowl work to improve air flow and unshield the valves
5 Angle Valve Job
New Seals

Other important info:
The intake is my own custom built sheet metal design
#39 injectors
90mm MAF
Ford Racing Short Headers and full exhaust
03/04 Cobra Twin Fuel Pumps
It is going to be installed in a 02 GT, if that matters to anyone

Ok, now that you have a better idea of my build, I have a few questions.

1. I am trying to decide on cams. I know that I want to put a Procharger D1 on this someday, but it is not in the picture budget wise right now. I have a line on a set of 96-98 Cobra Intake Cams and 03/04 Cobra Exhaust Cams. I was thinking of running these until the supercharger comes around at which time I would swap them for Supercharger Cams. Just curious on what people think here. I don't want to hurt myself by putting those cams in, but I also want to keep the cost low being I would be replacing them eventually anyways. Like I said, I would just like to hear some other people's ideas and opinions to help my decision.

2. Ok, this one is a little off the wall, but for my intake I will be running two throttle bodies. I want to know if I can run both IAC connections on the intake into a remote IAC adapter and still be able to get good readings to the computer plus be able to properly tune the thing. Additionally, is it even needed? Can I just hook it to one if they are feeding the same plenum and still be ok? Anyone who know information about this, it would be greatly appreciated.

3. Finally, the fun question. What kind of power you guys think this would put to the ground though a 5 speed with the Cobra cams as discussed above. Additionally, I am open to suggestions and comments to help make this build better.

Well, if you have gotten to this point, thanks for reading my book and I greatly appreciate any help and insight you may have to offer.

Thanks again,

Bill
 

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1. I have no idea on the cams. I just run stock cams to steer clear of failing smog tests here in California.

2. All the IACV does is make sure there is enough air going into the engine for a decent idle. The PCM uses it for coarse idle control. It uses spark advance for fine idle control. So you only need one IACV. Two IACVs would really complicate your tuning with no benefit. A more interesting question will be what you would do with your MAF?

The whole idea of two TBs is kind of strange to me. The only reason you would need it is if you were running so much horsepower that any single throttle body could not flow enough air to get you to 0" of mercury in the manifold when it was wide open. And if that is the case, the vacuum would form after your 90mm MAF and/or air filter. This whole thing seems to me like a lot of work and complication for no benefit. Sorry.

3. Who knows how much HP it will produce.

Sorry to be tough on you, but I don't get it.
 

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1. Cams are going to depend on your intake. 96-98 intake cams will work but if you intake has some shorter runners(less than 8") than you will have a mis-match and your power and torque will suffer N/A. If you can make your intake with some longer runners(11") then the 96-98 cams will work fine. I would spend the extra money up front and get some blower cams. The comp 106360 or 106460 would probably work great depnding on your intake or get your intake made and have something custom ground.

2. Two throttle bodies will be a tuning nightmare for good idle quality. if you have not already gone too far to change this do not do it. stick with one. It will make you life easier. If you are already set on 2 throttles then just run one IAC feeding both throttles, but like markolson asked what are you going to do with you MAF with 2 intake tubes?

3. If you run 96-98 cobra cams and get your intake to match, 370-380 whp with your shorty headers. Long tubes will get you another 15-20.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Alrighty. Thanks for the replies and info. Sorry it took so long to get back to you guys. Anyways, the reason for two throttle bodies was mainly cost. The idea was to use two stock 2V PI upper's with the stock 65mm throttle bodies (I already have both. One on the car now and an extra I bought for $40.00). I plan to face them both toward the passenger side of the car. I fabricated a Y tube that feeds both throttle bodies into one tube. For the rest of the intake tubing, I am using the bottom half of a BBK CAI, a 90mm MAF, and a K&N Filter. I thought it would be easy to use both of the throttle bodies as long as I routed them this way. My only concern was the IAC, but if I route them both into one via a remote IAC adapter, I think it will work. If you guys still think there will be issues, let me know.

The intake I am building is a sheet metal design. The runners are 10" in length. They are not straight runners, but they have a very wide bend radius start to finish. The ends are bell mouthed to help air flow as well. I want something that gives me a good power band, as it will be driven most on the street. I do not plan to spin it more than 6500rpm based on the long stroke of the 5.4, even with the forged internals. I would rather have longevity and loose a little power vice be rebuilding it in a couple years.

Now, as far as Cam are concerned, MMR will sell me new 96-98 Cobra Intake Cams with 03/04 Cobra Exhaust Cams for $139.00 Shipped. I thought this was a great price. My only concern is the duration and the fact that they were originally designed to feed a 4.6. I just don't want it to fall on its face at 4500-5500 RPM's. The specs I have found for these cams are as follows:
Intake:
Primary - 196 deg. @.050 w/ .397" lift
Secondary - 206 deg. @.050 w/ .397" lift
Exhaust:
Primary & Secondary - 196 deg. @ .050 w/ .397" lift

Are these correct?

I was also considering the FR500 Cam kit. I have read that the valves in the kit are produced by Ferrea. Additionally, the springs are support to be good to 7000rpm's, and even though I don't plan to spin that high, it is nice to know with the odd chance I miss a shift it will be ok. Even though 4V's don't react to lift as much as they do duration, I was thinking the higher lift (.472 vice .397) would help the larger 5.4 breathe easier as well. The specs I found for the kit are as follows:

Intake: 258 deg. @ .003 w/ .472 lift
Exhaust: 254 deg. @ .003 w/ .472 lift
Centerline: 109 (intake and exhaust)

1) Is this correct, and 2) does anyone know the duration at 0.050"?

I was really hoping to put 400hp N/A to the ground with this and I think the FR500 Cams would get me there. What you guys think?

Any other comments help, or information would be appreciated.

Thanks again,

Bill
 

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With the right intake you will hit 400rwhp with the FR cams. However, that will be cutting yourself short.
 

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You are trying to make NA power and use the same engine for boost. That makes it a compromise that will hurt you NA and boosted. The FR cams are [email protected] .050 and ~.468 lift.
That is nowhere near enough cam for a 5.4 NA or boosted. That will make peak power around 5400 rpm. Thats about 1200 rpm short. Porting for a boosted engine and a NA version are also very different.
Running a -4cc dish will make the CR around 9-1, again a major hit in the NA power.

Next.. Headers. It will require a proper set of headers. There are no available shelf headers for a 5.4 That means stock manifolds or next to useless shorties.
You need the decide what you really want in the end and build it.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
There is a set of regrinds on the forums for sale. The specs are as follows:

Specs
.446/.446 229/[email protected]
LSA 111, intake C/L 108 Exhaust C/L 114

Do you think these would get me to 6500rpm? Correct me if I am wrong, but with the numerically higher LSA at 111, these would be best suited for N/A and numerically lower LSA's are best suited for Boost.

Also, what would I need to do to shim these if I did decide to go with them?

Recommendations are always welcome. Thanks again for all the help guys. I know it will save future headaches.
 

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As Boss stated, you need to clarify if you are dedicating your funds to the forced induction parameters or the naturally aspirated route? In my opinion, you've already comitted on the short block so unless you want to buy cams twice, by a fairly agressive set of forced induction cams. The power you pick up with the extra duration will help offset the loss from FI lobe centers.

Have Al (Boss 330) spec a set for you if he has time.

Edit: Few people would consider reground cams a viable option. The word "junk" comes to mind.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Yes, I defiantly have already committed my short block for FI, but that is what I wanted. I have narrowed the search to the following two cams:

My first choice right now is a set of
MMR Stage 2 Turbo Cams - Specs as follows:
Gross Valve Lift Intake: .500
Gross Valve Lift Exhaust: .500
Intake Duration at 0.050: 230
Exhaust Duration at 0.050: 218
Lobe Separation: 114
Intake Centerline: 110

My next choice is a set of custom ground Comp Cams - Spec as Follows:
Gross Valve Lift Intake: .575
Gross Valve Lift Exhaust: .575
Intake Duration at 0.050: 243
Exhaust Duration at 0.050: 243
Lobe Separation: 115

I am posting all of this because I am curious which cam profile you guys think will work best for the 5.4.

As always,

Thanks Again for the Help,

Bill
 

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Next.. Headers. It will require a proper set of headers. There are no available shelf headers for a 5.4 That means stock manifolds or next to useless shorties.
You need the decide what you really want in the end and build it.
Boss is right. shorty's or stock manifolds will drag you down.
BUT, you can use the BBK 1 3/4 primary LT headers designed for a 4.6 but there's a catch. They will hit the car thanks to the taller height of the 5.4 so...
There is a company out there run by Bob Meyer (Fordified racing) who makes 1.5 inch K member spacers that will allow you to run the 4.6 longtube headers for your combo.
I know that, because i helped a friend install a 5.4 (it was a lightning, 2v not 4v but deck heights are the same) with longtube sohc headers and with the spacers, it works. barely. but it works. they were damn close to the body, so i recommend header wrap. his were ceramic coated, so he didn't have an issue with it.

Im in the same boat your in. i cannot figure out what cams would be good for my N/A combo. I currently have the cams your purchasing (96 intake/04 exh)
 

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Those comps are unusual with that much lift. Are you sure they're spec'd for a 4 valve modular engine? Who spec'd them?
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Well, I have not purchased the 96/04 Cams yet, and I am not going to. I am all but sold on the MMR Stage 2 Turbo Cams and a set of Comp Springs, which, as I just learned from nasvt, will require the Comp retainers too. I thought I would be able to use the stock retainers, but oh well.

As for the headers, I am still on the fence on that issue. I know the Shorties will hurt me, N/A or FI. The reason I am not sold for a set of Long Tubes yet is I will probably end up with a turbo in the long run, especially with those cams. I have been to weld school and have the welders to do it, just need the parts. I can fab my own hot and cold sides for it, which would make it WAY cheaper to do. I know this is probably better suited for the Power Adder Forum, but this was the turbo stuff I was looking at:

T70 T3 Turbo Charger,
Oil Cooled
4" inlet
Compressor 0.70 A/R 75 Trim
3" 4 Bolt Outlet 0.84 A/R 60 Trim
Divided T3 entry
Delta Fin 3 " Intercooler 31x12x3 Overall Size, 3" Inlet/Outlet
Manual Boost Controller
50mm Wastegate

So anyways.

Have a good one all and keep the recommendations coming.

Thanks again,

Bill
 

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Well, I have not purchased the 96/04 Cams yet, and I am not going to. I am all but sold on the MMR Stage 2 Turbo Cams and a set of Comp Springs, which, as I just learned from nasvt, will require the Comp retainers too. I thought I would be able to use the stock retainers, but oh well.
Bill,
Livernois sells a set of srpings that will work with the stock retainers; http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/product.phtml?p=1348
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Do you know how much lift they can take? How many RPM's are they good for? Tried to find the spec's elsewhere, but I was unsuccessful.
 
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