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137 Posts
What 302 windsor block would be suitable for 450 rwhp? Would a stock 89 block be enough?
Block for 450 rwhp??
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820 Posts
Yes, a properly tuned stock block can handle 450-500. That being said, there's the matter of how you plan to make it. Turbo is your best bet. If you plan to turn many RPMs, make sure you get a girdle. Just plan on getting a girdle PERIOD. If nothing else, for longevity's sake. Tune is everything though, seriously.
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6,247 Posts
I HIGHLY disagree...
There is no "safe" number for a stock 302 block...Some break at 300rwhp, some break at 600rwhp. There is no magic part or anything that add's to a long life. A girdle is a waste of money unless you want something pretty to hold all the parts in one piece when it breaks...notice I said WHEN it breaks...
The safest route to go is with a 351w if you want a long life...Proven 700-800hp without a problem. bilding the 351w with upgraded parts is zero cost difference between a 302 and 351w. The only different parts you need is a distributor, intake, headers and head studs. Everything else bolts right up...
If you truly want a 302 and nothing else, the only safe route to take is a Dart block. You can make a Mexican 302 block live longer, simply because the main caps have a little more beef behind them. a missed shift with a 5-speed is the biggest killer of stock 302 blocks...an over rev is all it takes and the block splits, thats why their is no magic number of "safe" hp levels. Tune helps some, but only with detonation, which doesnt really kill the block, but it kills the internal parts quickly.
There is no "safe" number for a stock 302 block...Some break at 300rwhp, some break at 600rwhp. There is no magic part or anything that add's to a long life. A girdle is a waste of money unless you want something pretty to hold all the parts in one piece when it breaks...notice I said WHEN it breaks...
The safest route to go is with a 351w if you want a long life...Proven 700-800hp without a problem. bilding the 351w with upgraded parts is zero cost difference between a 302 and 351w. The only different parts you need is a distributor, intake, headers and head studs. Everything else bolts right up...
If you truly want a 302 and nothing else, the only safe route to take is a Dart block. You can make a Mexican 302 block live longer, simply because the main caps have a little more beef behind them. a missed shift with a 5-speed is the biggest killer of stock 302 blocks...an over rev is all it takes and the block splits, thats why their is no magic number of "safe" hp levels. Tune helps some, but only with detonation, which doesnt really kill the block, but it kills the internal parts quickly.
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2,108 Posts
What wicked said... Dont waste your money on a ticking time bomb! Parts and machine cost are too costly to let them blow up and be out that hard earned money, time and effort we put into our hobbies.
Its like driving without insurance it can be done but its not a good idea!
Its like driving without insurance it can be done but its not a good idea!
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1,535 Posts
Learn from many of our mistakes. Hell I am about to make the same mistake again, untill I can afford a dart block. If you are just starting off and can't afford a dart then do a 351w block. I regret not doing it. Well now my whole build is around a 8.2 deck motor, so I am stuck untill I do dart.
Sent from my PI86100 using Board Express
Sent from my PI86100 using Board Express
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137 Posts
If I go 351 ill just get a stock shortblock put my f cam in it, the heads will be iron gt40's lightly ported and ill try to find a gt40 351 lower intake, I know the heads are to small but I really don't have the money for aluminum heads hopefully it'll make good power
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6,247 Posts
It would be a fun little Tq monster...You have have a base for alot of power in the future. Not too mention if you wanted to throw a turbo on that combo and cram in about 10psi you would have well over 500rwhp and reliability.
Go with the 351w and you will not regret it...Then while you are having fun in the stock motor, get stuff together for a 408 stroker build with bigger heads. then BOOYA! tons of instant tq and power.
Go with the 351w and you will not regret it...Then while you are having fun in the stock motor, get stuff together for a 408 stroker build with bigger heads. then BOOYA! tons of instant tq and power.
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137 Posts
I'm thinking about a si-trim and about 12 psi, I'm gonna just ride around with the stock block and gt40 setup for now and get all the swap parts until its ready then transfer all the stuff over to the 351 and put it in, atleast that's gonna be the plan!
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1,187 Posts
Although i do agree with the strength of a 351.....
BUT i will defend the 302 production block as well. I have ran 3 production blocks on force induction. One with a P600B fully tuned that was on my white GT, and now i have been running a stock 302 long block on an On3 turbo setup on my black GT for a year now and i havent even blown a headgasket let alone show signs of it shutting or splitting. 135k original miles. I tuned it to 6200 RPM rev limiter with only 11 lbs of boost. They stop making power around mid/late 5000s. Custom conservative tune with 18 degrees and it runs 11.4 @ 123 mph thru the traps. Mainly a street car for pure fun and thats why i built it that way. On a mustang dyno with cutout off for flow, it put down 460ish RWHP. I have broken a cluster shaft on a freshly rebuilt Z spec but i know why the trans even failed to begin with. It had a bad ring clip between 2nd and 3rd gear allowing the gear to move a few thousands. I have sense rebuilt the same trans and have 0 issues.
I guess my point is, i have ran production 302 blocks mid-high 400's with no issues for years. 3 or 4 of them. NO splits (knock on wood) Not only on this car black GT i have but on my original white GT which now has a 363 (my white GT mods are in my sig).
Its all how much you push it imo. If your mildly conservative with it, get a nice custom tune you shouldnt have any problems at all with a 302. Even a stock long block for that matter. And yes luck does play a part in it. I have been lucky with good production blocks but i also have them completely checked for problems at machine shops.
BUT i will defend the 302 production block as well. I have ran 3 production blocks on force induction. One with a P600B fully tuned that was on my white GT, and now i have been running a stock 302 long block on an On3 turbo setup on my black GT for a year now and i havent even blown a headgasket let alone show signs of it shutting or splitting. 135k original miles. I tuned it to 6200 RPM rev limiter with only 11 lbs of boost. They stop making power around mid/late 5000s. Custom conservative tune with 18 degrees and it runs 11.4 @ 123 mph thru the traps. Mainly a street car for pure fun and thats why i built it that way. On a mustang dyno with cutout off for flow, it put down 460ish RWHP. I have broken a cluster shaft on a freshly rebuilt Z spec but i know why the trans even failed to begin with. It had a bad ring clip between 2nd and 3rd gear allowing the gear to move a few thousands. I have sense rebuilt the same trans and have 0 issues.
I guess my point is, i have ran production 302 blocks mid-high 400's with no issues for years. 3 or 4 of them. NO splits (knock on wood) Not only on this car black GT i have but on my original white GT which now has a 363 (my white GT mods are in my sig).
Its all how much you push it imo. If your mildly conservative with it, get a nice custom tune you shouldnt have any problems at all with a 302. Even a stock long block for that matter. And yes luck does play a part in it. I have been lucky with good production blocks but i also have them completely checked for problems at machine shops.
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6,247 Posts
There is no doubt the 302 blocks have made plenty of power, some guys have dipped them into the 9.xx zone on a regular basis without breaking...
But its very argueable they can easily break with a slight mis int he tune, or a single over rev from a missed shift will spilt it like an apple...
But its very argueable they can easily break with a slight mis int he tune, or a single over rev from a missed shift will spilt it like an apple...
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1,187 Posts
Yep, if your making that much power, you should be tuned anyways. Set your rev limiter to just after you make power like i did to ensure you miss a shift? So what.. it will be fine. There is no reason to be able to rev past your power band because all it will do is harm more than help.
If conscious about your build, you wont have to worry about splitting your block. But remember theres 2 sides to that coin.
If conscious about your build, you wont have to worry about splitting your block. But remember theres 2 sides to that coin.
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1,980 Posts
351w has my vote.
I do have a MEX block 347 with a Paxton in my wife's 65 Mustang making over 600hp, but like everyone says it will never be as strong as the 351w.
I do have a MEX block 347 with a Paxton in my wife's 65 Mustang making over 600hp, but like everyone says it will never be as strong as the 351w.
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