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Anyone from East TN at the Corral?

2177322 Views 37155 Replies 275 Participants Last post by  93Cobra#2771, 
5oh
I live in the Knoxville area. Anybody else near to K-town? We could all hook up and scare some Hondas! ;)


This was the post that started this all. It's been over a year! I'm thinking it's time for a party!!!
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Leadsled Coupe
If this website is correct, I am using a 3G currently.

How to Identify Your Ford 3G, 4G & 6G Series Alternator

How to identify key differences in Ford 3G, 4G and 6G Series alternators. Large Case High Output upgrade paths from your stock small case alternator.
alternatorparts.com
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CDW6212R
I think you are correct about the Mustang alternators, I believe they were 2G's in the early 90's, and it upgraded to 3G in 94+, and they also match the 2G case size in many applications. I swapped a mid 90's 3G into my 91 Lincoln, which all had the old style 1G case(1984-1992).

I have under drive pulleys on that 91 302 HO, and the idle voltage used to drop below 12v easily. The stock 3G from a Taurus works great even with the under drive pulleys, but that Lincoln alternator bracket is super rare and you don't want that one. When they crack you go hunting one from a Fox Mustang, and get the 3G like you have for yours(it's a smaller case 3G). As I posted before, they made a ton of varying sized cases, so swapping any of them is hard. Knowledge is precious.
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Leadsled Coupe
Adding up my power needs, maybe a 250A is more than I need. LIst:

spal dual fan (30A each)- - 60
interior blower fan guess - 30
HID headlights- - - - - - - - 40
255Lph fuel pump - - - - - 20?
rear defrost (rarely used) - 20?
windshield wipers - - - - - 20?
TOTAL______________ 190A

My nitrous bottle heater is another load but LOL, I'd NOT be using it with all else on. As many of those are RARELY used and never everything all together..... I think an honest 200A system would be fine IF it produces well at low rpm. I was likely using 170A the other night with ac on with full rad fan running, headlights on but no defrost.....

Thoughts?
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93Cobra#2771
Before you get too far, make sure the battery in your digital volt meter is fresh. It won’t read right. In my case, it read low.
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CDW6212R
I believe you are guessing very high on some of those loads in that list. You shouldn't run a full current electric fan for one thing, that kind of relay system is really hard on the alternator, wiring, the relays, and the motors too. It's worth investing in some kind of progressive controller, those add massively to the lifespan of all of those parts.

What kind of current do HID lights require? I would have guessed much less than old 100w types, which would be 8amps or so each.
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Michael Yount
With those voltages at idle, and 12.5V with everything on -- I don't really see a problem Chris unless the battery's dying and you're having problems starting the car. When you're driving and rpm is 1200, 1500, 1800 rpm -- what kind of voltage then with everything on? What kind of cooling fan control?
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Leadsled Coupe
It's the fluctuating that bothers me. I want to make sure I have great power to the fans at all times, especially under heavy electrical load. I can see the temps having more trouble at idle with everything running and hot ambients.

With the new dual SPAL coming I want to be sure it kicks butt.

Thanks Richard for the pointer on the battery. I'll retry in the morning.
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Michael Yount
What kind of fan control?
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Goodson
Maybe start simple Chris. Check your battery cable connections at all locations. Maybe there's too much resistance at a connection not mated well? Or a bad cable eyelet at one end? Fluctuating tells me there may be a bad connection if your meter is functioning properly and the idiot behind the wheel has it all together. Ha!
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Leadsled Coupe
That's for sure! Good point I'll check the cable connections near the battery and cut off switch. And try a new battery in the meter as Richard suggested.
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93Cobra#2771
Leadsled Coupe said:
Lowish voltage when everything is running- 12.5v or so (wipers/ ac/ interior fan/ headlights/ rad fan at max). Then there is the fluctuating voltage issue that happens seemingly maybe when it's not cold out- voltage goes between 14.5 down to 13.0 or so back and forth every 15-20 sec.

You'll recall I am overdriving (smaller dia alt pulley with stock crank pulley). This is left over from the days when I'd run an under drive crank pulley and wanted alternator to put out normal energy while underdriving other accessories. Then I had my 333ci motor built so power wasn't an issue any longer.

I am thinking on getting a 250A alternator this spring and then that killer dual SPAL fan (that gave me 10+ great years long ago) and ditching the cheap chineseum imitation contour fan that was worth the $99 I spent on it.
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Honestly, those numbers don't bother me at all. As far as the 14.5 down to 13.0 and back and forth every 15-10 seconds - is your rpm steady at that same time? AC compressor kicking on and off? Fan on and off?
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Michael Yount
Chris - you were showing a current draw of 60A for the cooling fans. Can't remember if you have the dual 11" fans or the dual 12" -- but both have SPAL suggesting a 30A fuse for each fan. That fused number indicates that actual current draw, even at full cfm rating, is quite a bit less than 30+30=60. In the back of my head I seem to remember a 37A draw for the dual 11's on mind -- but, memory.....

In any event, I think those fans are your single biggest draw. If they're not being controlled by a variable speed controller that soft starts/stops -- I'd invest in that before I started looking for more alternator. Especially given the voltages you've told us about.
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93Cobra#2771
Agree 1000%.
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Leadsled Coupe
93Cobra#2771 said:
Honestly, those numbers don't bother me at all. As far as the 14.5 down to 13.0 and back and forth every 15-10 seconds - is your rpm steady at that same time? AC compressor kicking on and off? Fan on and off?
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Thats actually with nothing on Richard. No AC, no interior blower fan, even no headlights. Its SOOO Odd....
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Leadsled Coupe
Michael Yount said:
Chris - you were showing a current draw of 60A for the cooling fans. Can't remember if you have the dual 11" fans or the dual 12" -- but both have SPAL suggesting a 30A fuse for each fan. That fused number indicates that actual current draw, even at full cfm rating, is quite a bit less than 30+30=60. In the back of my head I seem to remember a 37A draw for the dual 11's on mind -- but, memory.....

In any event, I think those fans are your single biggest draw. If they're not being controlled by a variable speed controller that soft starts/stops -- I'd invest in that before I started looking for more alternator. Especially given the voltages you've told us about.
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The 30A per fan is from SPAL's website and it's their fusing recommendation for each fan. I am still running a cheap chineseum contour copy. It was $99 and has lasted a good three years but it's now making noise as it spins down with engine off, so I think the motor is wearing somewhere internally. I was never impressed with it compared to a new dual SPAL fan. I've wanted a new one of those for a while and this year is the ticket apparently.

I am running one of those DCC controllers, the largest one that doesn't run an electrical water pump. I've forgotten which it is. I've upgraded over the last two decades with Brian.
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Leadsled Coupe
I put in new batteries in my ammeter last night and checked the amps out of the alternator with my car running at idle. It again shows about 2A. Maybe that's normal but it sure seems low. Too many questions.....

Meeting with my web designers today at 1015a to try to put the wraps on this page so I can launch it. :cool:
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Michael Yount
If your battery isn't giving you problems -- then I don't think you have a problem Chris. I mentioned the 30A fuse requirement above -- point is, if it's fused at 30A, the actual 'full tilt' draw is much lower than that. And with the DCC -- they're rarely running at full tilt. I was just trying to point out that your "Fans - 60A" is probably way high. On the other hand -- the fans you're actually running are different, so I reckon we don't know what they're doing. You could hot wire the fans to the battery to run at full speed and put your amp clamp on the battery wires I guess.

Can't wait to see the first web shot - that'll be cool. BAT submitted their first draft of listing for the Volvo yesterday. They did a great job - but it's a complex listing. Took me 2.5 hours to edit. They're working with the changes now. This should go live in a few days.
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Michael Yount
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Leadsled Coupe
Michael Yount said:
If your battery isn't giving you problems -- then I don't think you have a problem Chris. I mentioned the 30A fuse requirement above -- point is, if it's fused at 30A, the actual 'full tilt' draw is much lower than that. And with the DCC -- they're rarely running at full tilt. I was just trying to point out that your "Fans - 60A" is probably way high. On the other hand -- the fans you're actually running are different, so I reckon we don't know what they're doing. You could hot wire the fans to the battery to run at full speed and put your amp clamp on the battery wires I guess.

Can't wait to see the first web shot - that'll be cool. BAT submitted their first draft of listing for the Volvo yesterday. They did a great job - but it's a complex listing. Took me 2.5 hours to edit. They're working with the changes now. This should go live in a few days.
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I can't WAIT to see your Volvo on BAT. :)

I've met and pre-warned individually all the folks going to the "conflict of interest" meeting on me on Weds. They are ALL in support of what I plan to do, know my heart, know my integrity and love of the plant and it's employees. Everyone is somewhat sad that I have to go this solo route to accomplish my desires that used to be handled inside the company. But, oh well. We'll see what the "process" does as they discuss me and my plans, but I am not worried. Contingency plan is still in process - large LOC loan is likely to be cleared thru the bank by end of the month.

The global director suggests that I may actually have more business than I know what to do with in short order. :cool: My industry trade association is just putting on a webinar on helping foundries keep their knowledge base/ attract talent in these challenging times. PERFECT TIMING for my launch and what I've expected for over a year now that this is desperately needed!!

Ooooh so excited.

Thanks for the thoughts on the battery Michael. If a minimum of 12.5v is maintained AND the car keeps cool, then the bare necessities are being provided.
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Leadsled Coupe
Michael Yount said:
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Uber sweet.
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