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Discussion Starter · #1,162 ·
So I measured a couple sets of headers. The RCIs are almost exactly 16" from the bolt hole to the bottom of the collector. I also measured a set of BBK long tubes, they were slightly longer, about 16.5" from the back bolt hole to bottom of collector. Probably got a better measurement on the RCIs as they are bolted to the engine, but the BBKs fit well, and tucked up fairly closely.

Jay
I measured the JBA headers and they are about 16.5 from the bolt hole. I also measured what I have now from the bolt hole to the bottom of the H-pipe and it is the same as the long tube so it should have good ground clearance. The firewall is the only place I think it will be close.

I'd go more for something like this for the crossover:

Summit Racing SUM-642125-SS Summit Racing™ Universal X-Pipe Kits | Summit Racing, and a pair of 3" x 2.5" reducers.

Jay
I looked at that kit I'm worried that the pipes going back to the mufflers will be to wide with that setup. I'm running an event this Sunday for some seat time then I'm going to put the car back in the air to look under it to start making a plan for the exhaust. I not going to touch the car until after the NMCA event at the end of March. After that event I have 2 months to try and get the fuel system and exhaust done on the car.
 

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I looked at that kit I'm worried that the pipes going back to the mufflers will be to wide with that setup. I'm running an event this Sunday for some seat time then I'm going to put the car back in the air to look under it to start making a plan for the exhaust. I not going to touch the car until after the NMCA event at the end of March. After that event I have 2 months to try and get the fuel system and exhaust done on the car.
If your exhaust is anything like mine:

Tire Vehicle Wheel Automotive tire Motor vehicle


I could actually have cleaned this up a bit If I had not had the V-bands welded to the pieces they gave me to go into the mufflers, and instead lengthened the straight section before it turned, and went straight into the mufflers.

Jay
 

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Discussion Starter · #1,164 ·
If your exhaust is anything like mine:

View attachment 1082927

I could actually have cleaned this up a bit If I had not had the V-bands welded to the pieces they gave me to go into the mufflers, and instead lengthened the straight section before it turned, and went straight into the mufflers.

Jay
It might I have to get the car back in the air to take a look at it. I would like to do the exhaust before the next NMCA event but I don't think I can get it done in time.

I did get the car out today for some autocross fun with the San Diego Region SCCA which was a blast. The car is definitely louder with no cats.


Worked on my driving today trying to remind myself sometimes slower is faster.
 

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Discussion Starter · #1,166 ·
Holley 300-72BK SysteMAX Intake Manifold | eBay

More than 10 available, woohoo! Things are sure getting pricey these days!

Jay
I don't know why they say 10 in stock when the don't have them in stock. When you order it from them they will drop ship it from Holley. I have one on order now with JBA. It's not going to be here until May which is fine since I'm not going to install it until July or August when I plan on doing the cam install if I can get one in time.
 

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I'm using the street performance #5323 series in the red car. I don't plan to spin that engine faster than 6500 RPM.

Morel Link Bar Hydraulic Roller Lifters - SBF - FlowTech Induction

Solid roller in the black car, I think I put these lifters in it:

Morel 4713-16 Ford Lifters (flowtechinduction.com)

Have you decided on what you're going to do with the cam?

You mentioned a 3" exhaust for your car, what did you get? Also, on the subject of exhaust, I think I would recommend the Stainless Works brand of cats, their quality is just the best of any exhaust parts I've yet seen.

Only reason I didn't go that way is that I wanted a heat shield. If I had a do over, I'd have got the SWs and fabbed my own heat shield. Nothing wrong with the Magna Flow brand, I just much prefer 300 series stainless compared to the 400 that Magna Flow uses. Other than that, they look to be of very good quality!

Jay
 

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Discussion Starter · #1,169 ·
I'm using the street performance #5323 series in the red car. I don't plan to spin that engine faster than 6500 RPM.

Morel Link Bar Hydraulic Roller Lifters - SBF - FlowTech Induction

Solid roller in the black car, I think I put these lifters in it:

Morel 4713-16 Ford Lifters (flowtechinduction.com)

Have you decided on what you're going to do with the cam?

You mentioned a 3" exhaust for your car, what did you get? Also, on the subject of exhaust, I think I would recommend the Stainless Works brand of cats, their quality is just the best of any exhaust parts I've yet seen.

Only reason I didn't go that way is that I wanted a heat shield. If I had a do over, I'd have got the SWs and fabbed my own heat shield. Nothing wrong with the Magna Flow brand, I just much prefer 300 series stainless compared to the 400 that Magna Flow uses. Other than that, they look to be of very good quality!

Jay
I haven;t got the exhaust yet. I have the JBA long tube headers but I still need to try and fit them to the car. I still not sure they will work. The way they are designed if you look on the passenger side cylinders 2 tube extends all the way back a little past the flange then down based on measurements that might be a problem with the firewall.



The driver side does the same thing so it might be a problem also.



It's hard to tell with the plastic still on them. So I haven't done anything with the x-pipe since I'm not sure the headers will work. If they don't fit then I will go with the American Racing headers and x-pipe. I'm also having some 3 inch tailpipes being built for the car and I'm going to get 3 inch mufflers from spintech. I got a pair of flowmaster cats for the car that I'm going to try out. I talked with a few people that run them and really like how they work.

I'm working on a cam right now with Comp Cams it's going to be a Billet version of the XFI236HR. Based on my motor specs they felt it would make a good cam for what I'm doing with the car and I can get it in 2 weeks. I decided to stay Hydraulic roller on the camshaft since it will be fine for what I'm doing with the car. I'm going to swap out the lifters and go with the Jesel shaft mount rockers in the car. I'm not going to start the cam swap project until the summer unless something happens to the car between now and then. I should have the intake by summer time and I will have just over two months to pull the motor put the cam in the car and get everything back together so I can get it to the dyno at JBA for the them to test the car before my September event.

I have a race this weekend. I've been really struggling with corner exit grip with the car. It just won't put down power without going sideways. I know part of it is my problem going to the gas to hard on corner exit which I've been working on. I also need to have another person drive my car that I know is a really good driver to see if it's me or the car has a lot of oversteer. I drove a car for years that no matter how hard you hit the gas on corner exit you could never get it to break loose. So I was used to just planting the gas on corner exit. Now I have a car that doesn't like that so I have to be more aware of my throttle input.

I know the car is fast it's kept up with cars making twice the power it does. It really shines on the tight courses through the corners it just needs some work to make it better on corner exit.
 

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Yeah, that passenger side header looks like it could be a problem, I think maybe the driver side will be OK. I like your plan for the valvetrain upgrades, it will make considerably more power with the induction and valvetrain changes.

I hope you don't have to resort to traction control for corner exit (I'm joking). I'm sure you'll get that figured out after you've had more seat time.

Jay
 

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Discussion Starter · #1,171 ·
Yeah, that passenger side header looks like it could be a problem, I think maybe the driver side will be OK. I like your plan for the valvetrain upgrades, it will make considerably more power with the induction and valvetrain changes.

I hope you don't have to resort to traction control for corner exit (I'm joking). I'm sure you'll get that figured out after you've had more seat time.

Jay
I'm worried about both sides but I think the passenger will be the tightest. the only reason I think the American racing headers will fit is the way the tubes go down and none of them extend past the header flange. I think the valvetrain upgrades will really open the car up so I'm looking forward to them. The only thing I'm worried about is I will add a lot of power and need a new transmission. So maybe a TKX is in the cars future.

I tried the traction control and it didn't do anything. I have to look into how it's setup just haven't had time.

After this event I will have more updates to the thread as i build the new fuel system and install the new exhaust.
 

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Discussion Starter · #1,172 ·
I'm thinking the Morel 5323 should work for my car considering I'm not going to be turning over 6500 rpms. I've also looked at Howards Cams 91260 which I've also heard good things about. I think either one will work good.
 

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Discussion Starter · #1,173 ·
Another good weekend of racing in the books. I had only planned on me driving the car but one of the guys from JBA wasn't able to get his fox body ready for the event due to fuel pressure issues they ran into getting the car ready on the dyno. He asked if he could drive my car this weekend. Which worked for me since I wanted someone else to drive the car to get feed back on how it was handling. Mike from JBA has a lot of experience racing autocross and dirt oval cars and pretty much anything with 4 wheels. He is also very good at getting a car setup. After driving the car he notice the same things I did. The car is very tail happy on corner exit. We spent the first day of racing just working on the setup of the car. After testing shock adjustments we got the car pretty neutral. The car could come out of the corners better. You can't plant the gas on corner exit but it's much improved.

The other thing we worked on was tire pressures and making sure we had a good alignment in the car. We got the pressures set and we were getting good temps across the tires. Unfortunately with all the changes I wasn't able to get a good time in the car plus the really long back straight was killing the car. I had to shift into 3rd to keep the car in the power or I was going to loose a ton of time. I was able to manage 8th out of 28 drivers. The new set of Yoko A052 felt good in the morning but started to fall off during the heat of the day especially with 2 drivers in the car. This my fastest run from Saturday.


We went into Sunday feeling good with the car. Even with the grip falling of as the day went on Saturday the car was still fast. Sunday was supposed to be really cool high 60's low 70's so we should have the advantage on the Yoko but the day got hotter then expected. After my first set of runs I wasn't doing as well as I was hopping. I was down in 12th knowing the car had more in it. I knew the car was good or a lot better then it was so I wanted to see if it was just me. After my first set of runs I talked with my friend Tom who is a very fast driver one of the fastest at the event. Told him what I was doing he gave me a few pointers and I asked him to ride with me. He rode with me on my first run on my second set of runs. He said he liked what I was doing I just needed to tighten up some of my lines in the slow parts and give up some speed since I was wasting my time trying to sweep out wide trying to get the best angle in the car. I followed his advice and was able to drop 7 tenths of my previous fastest to drop me down to 4th in class. Unfortunately the day got hotter and I wasn't able to improve on my third set of runs and the tires were pretty shot after two drivers on a hot day. The better tire to have would have been the Nankang. Here's my fastest from Sunday.


The car ran good even with two people beating on it and after 36 autocross runs it went on to the trailer under it's own power. Which is always a good way to cap off a weekend. The tires on the car are shot so it's good thing I'm sponsored by JBA Meltdown tires shop so getting a new set will be easy. One thing after riding in my car Tom mentioned was how well the car changes direction. Even with quick inputs I was putting into the steering wheel the car just took it and went where I was pointing it. After riding in the car he said I was goign to tell you to slow down your inputs but the car took it and it worked so he said keep doing it. He also mentioned he could hardly hold on when he was riding with me because the car changed direction so fast. He was also amazed on how well it stopped.

The weekend was great made good progress on the car and my driving. It was good to know what I was feeling in the car wasn't just me and we could work on fixing it. It was also nice to take Tom for a ride to figure out what I could be doing better.
 

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What did you guys do to decrease oversteer on corner exit? Does Mike's car have an IRS rear in it such that he's familiar with an IRS?

Did the ABS ever come into play this weekend?

And one last question, are the rear mounts that you modified holding up and not bending? I've decided to do that for sure on mine since I would assume that's how one of mine ended up that way.

Jay
 

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Discussion Starter · #1,175 ·
What did you guys do to decrease oversteer on corner exit? Does Mike's car have an IRS rear in it such that he's familiar with an IRS?

Did the ABS ever come into play this weekend?

And one last question, are the rear mounts that you modified holding up and not bending? I've decided to do that for sure on mine since I would assume that's how one of mine ended up that way.

Jay
I've done a few things to decrease the oversteer in the car. I'm not running the rear spring rates Jack recommended. I'm not running the 750lb springs in the car anymore. I'm down to a 600lb spring in the rear with a 400lb in the front. I know it's not what Jack recommended but it seems to be working really good. Then we played with the shock settings we took the compression settings down and turned up the rebound. We wanted to try and soften up the car in the back so it would roll a bit. It put us in the right direction the grip was getting better in the car even when the track surface grip was going away in the heat of the day.

He is familiar with the IRS they also run a 2004 mustang cobra at the NMCA series. The foxbody he drives has a torque arm that was supposed to go in my car before i swapped to the IRS. Here's a picture of the cobra.



The only thing different with the cobra is it has a Griggs SLA in it.

The only came into play once on my last lap through the finish I was carrying a lot of speed and almost couldn't stop in time and the ABS started to trigger. I normally don't get into the ABS unless it's a full panic stop.

The rear mounts are holding up good I don't see any bending or deforming. I think they are going to work out good. I might have to swing the rear of the IRS cradle down to get access to the fuel filter so I will be able to get a deeper inspection.
 

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I was wondering about the IRS experience as I would believe there is a good bit of difference setting up the IRS as opposed to a live axle, but I can't speak with certainty about that.

It's too bad about the tires going away, when you put so much time and effort into your car as you have, it must be a bit frustrating to have that happen. I'm sure you must be pleased with the progress though, I think getting the power band widened up will help quite a bit on those long straights.

What do the JBA guys think about the SLA front setup, do they feel that is a massive improvement over a strut front?

Jay
 

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Discussion Starter · #1,177 ·
I was wondering about the IRS experience as I would believe there is a good bit of difference setting up the IRS as opposed to a live axle, but I can't speak with certainty about that.
He does have IRS experience but like most he has more live axle experience. But he does have a lot of suspension setup experience that has been very help full in getting the car working better. Another thing we worked on was getting the tire pressures right by monitoring tire temps across the tire. The other thing we can use for tuning the suspension is the remote canisters on the shocks. You can run 100-275 psi of nitrogen in the canisters. For every 10 psi of nitrogen pressure you add to the shock equals 5.5lbs of spring lift.

It's too bad about the tires going away, when you put so much time and effort into your car as you have, it must be a bit frustrating to have that happen. I'm sure you must be pleased with the progress though, I think getting the power band widened up will help quite a bit on those long straights.
It did suck to have the tires go away. It will be interesting to try the car on new tires at the next event. I'm really happy with the progress on the car. We're going to keep working on it so when we add more power we will be able to use it.

What do the JBA guys think about the SLA front setup, do they feel that is a massive improvement over a strut front?

Jay
They only have a few events on it but they seem to like it so far. I really haven't asked them how they feel it compares to the strut front.
 

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We're going to keep working on it so when we add more power we will be able to use it.
I think that low end torque such as corner exit isn't going to increase with the engine mods, the lion's share of that power gain will be in the higher RPM ranges. Just about any intake dyno comparison I've ever seen, the Cobra/Explorer manifolds reign supreme in the lower engine speed regions.

That actually often times works out to be an advantage, if, as in your case, there is actually too much low end torque such that tire grip is exceeded, and the tail steps out. Based on my previous experience, it will still be easy to fry the tires any time you plant the throttle in first or second. I must admit my car only had 295s in the rear, and they were street radials.

Jay
 

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Discussion Starter · #1,179 ·
I think that low end torque such as corner exit isn't going to increase with the engine mods, the lion's share of that power gain will be in the higher RPM ranges. Just about any intake dyno comparison I've ever seen, the Cobra/Explorer manifolds reign supreme in the lower engine speed regions.

That actually often times works out to be an advantage, if, as in your case, there is actually too much low end torque such that tire grip is exceeded, and the tail steps out. Based on my previous experience, it will still be easy to fry the tires any time you plant the throttle in first or second. I must admit my car only had 295s in the rear, and they were street radials.

Jay
That's the hope that we just move the power band up higher so it doesn't run out of steam so quick. I think it will loose some at the bottom because like you said if you look at dyno charts of the cobra intake it's really good at the low end.

I think part of the problem is the car has to much low end torque and it's easy to over power the 295 tires on the car even with the Yoko A052. Unfortunately were not going to know until September since I won't be able to get the cam installed until the summer. I'm going to pull the motor from the car to do the cam swap.
 

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Discussion Starter · #1,180 ·
Not to much to report on the car. I was going to do the fuel system and exhaust install but that hasn't happened. I started to take the car apart to get the exhaust in and ran into issues so decided to scrap it for now. Then I moved on to the fuel system and again ran into problems and decided not to bother with it for now. I'm not going to use the cobra intake so what ever I do I might have ot change it. Plus the BBRC fuel rails are hitting my distributor and the Aeromotive ones are doing the same. It didn't help that I kind of ran out of motivation and didn't want to make the fuel lines. I've just had to many other things to do and no real time to focus on it. I also noticed this when I had the headers out of the car.



I noticed some small drops of coolant on the floor dripping of the block plate. I thought it was coming from the back of the intake manifold but it wasn't I traced it back to the back of the head. I checked the cylinder and its fine What's weird is the coolant around the head stud. It doesn't seem possible that fluid could push up around the stud. I torqued down the head again and I'm just going to run it. I need to get the car through the next 2 events then my plan is to pull the motor and send it off to JBA so they can install the new cam, lifters and rockers and test it on their dyno. While the motor is out I'm going to work on the plumbing from the tank to the front of the car so it's ready when the motor gets back.

I do have most of the parts for the engine update. I got the cam from Comp Cams they made it out of Billet instead of the cast so it took a few weeks to get. I also went with Johnson Lifters 2212SBR that JBA recommended. I have the Jesel 516060 shaft mount rockers coming and should be here in about a week. So far my Holley Systemax hasn't been pushed back so still looking at a mid May delivery. I still need to figure out a 80mm throttle body for the car. I will probably go with a Accufab or something like that. It will be interesting to see how much power the car makes with the engine, fuel system and exhaust updates. I'm starting to worry about my transmission.

I'm hoping to bring some more updates over the next few weeks that lead up to the next event. I'm going to bring out the scales and weight the car and try to corner weight it. I also have some ideas for tire cooling during the summer.
 
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