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Discussion Starter #662
The noise the pump is making could it be caused by the rack doing something or does it just sound like a bad pump?
 

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Discussion Starter #665
I didn't get to race today which was a bummer ended up having to work. My wife did get out to race the Mod car today and found out it looks like we are going to get autocross dates next year for at least half the season. So it looks like I'm going to have to make sure the car is ready for next year.
 

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I didn't get to race today which was a bummer ended up having to work. My wife did get out to race the Mod car today and found out it looks like we are going to get autocross dates next year for at least half the season. So it looks like I'm going to have to make sure the car is ready for next year.
Ironic that the very job that enables us to afford to pursue our hobbies/passions often interferes with the very participation of said activity. I'm happy to hear the local venue will continue for a time, that you will be able to enjoy the car for the purpose for which she was built.

I saw some pictures of an IRS swapped SN95 in the classifieds here, I see where you are coming from, the Cobra cat back system doesn't look, or fit right on the earlier model.

Jay
 

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You have the correct part number pump for the application.

The PS system has a number of compliant elements in it. Steering rack bushings, FCA bushings, high pressure hoses, etc. Part of the compliance in these parts is there to absorb high frequency pulses in the power steering system, so they don't make audible noise. When you replace these parts with versions of them which are less compliant, the steering system is going to tend to make more noise. In addition, you may get some oscillation of the system when the car is not moving, but the steering is turned. You can see and hear this as a shuddering in the motion of the front tires. You could fix this by installing a hydraulic damper in the system, but this is expensive to do and not easy to plumb in.

Without being near your car, it is difficult to tell if the pump noise level is normal or not given the modifications done to the car. If the pump is operating normally, it will get much quieter under load, if you lift the front tires off of the ground. In addition, if the pump makes noise with the tires on the ground, the surface friction of the ground will have an effect on the noise made.

One critical thing. The power steering pressure hoses must be made from SAE J100 rated hose. If you have hoses made by a hydraulics shop, they will use hose rated for a higher operating pressure. This hose is less compliant than J100 and will therefore not dampen the PS pump impulses as well. The result will be a lot more noise.
 

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Discussion Starter #669
Ironic that the very job that enables us to afford to pursue our hobbies/passions often interferes with the very participation of said activity. I'm happy to hear the local venue will continue for a time, that you will be able to enjoy the car for the purpose for which she was built.

I saw some pictures of an IRS swapped SN95 in the classifieds here, I see where you are coming from, the Cobra cat back system doesn't look, or fit right on the earlier model.

Jay
I'm going to look at the magna flow system for my car. The tail pipes are separate in that kit so what I might do is cut the tail pipes off my flow masters and use those instead of the ones that come with the magna flow kit. I can use a butt-joint exhaust clamp to connect the 2 together. I saw another member on here stew magoo who did something like this on his car.
 

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Discussion Starter #670
You have the correct part number pump for the application.

The PS system has a number of compliant elements in it. Steering rack bushings, FCA bushings, high pressure hoses, etc. Part of the compliance in these parts is there to absorb high frequency pulses in the power steering system, so they don't make audible noise. When you replace these parts with versions of them which are less compliant, the steering system is going to tend to make more noise. In addition, you may get some oscillation of the system when the car is not moving, but the steering is turned. You can see and hear this as a shuddering in the motion of the front tires. You could fix this by installing a hydraulic damper in the system, but this is expensive to do and not easy to plumb in.

Without being near your car, it is difficult to tell if the pump noise level is normal or not given the modifications done to the car. If the pump is operating normally, it will get much quieter under load, if you lift the front tires off of the ground. In addition, if the pump makes noise with the tires on the ground, the surface friction of the ground will have an effect on the noise made.

One critical thing. The power steering pressure hoses must be made from SAE J100 rated hose. If you have hoses made by a hydraulics shop, they will use hose rated for a higher operating pressure. This hose is less compliant than J100 and will therefore not dampen the PS pump impulses as well. The result will be a lot more noise.
I will take a look at everything when I get a chance I believe the pressure hose is a J100 but can't be sure. The rack in the car is an AGR rack I got back in 2001 it took returning 2 bad ones to get a good working one. The old pump made no noise it was also an AGR pump. Not sure if that had something to do with it. I do have a new high pressure line for the car so I could try swapping it. I also added the cooler but I would figure that would have nothing to do with it since its on the return side of the PS.
 

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Discussion Starter #671
Jack

I also have longacre turn plates I can put under the tires to get rid of the friction of the tires dragging on the ground to see how much noise it makes.
 

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Discussion Starter #673
I've been getting more work done on the IRS to get it ready to install once the SRA is out of the car. I got the tabs for the upper control arms straightened out. The uppers were pretty easy compared to the lower control arms.



I also got the rubber bushings out of the sub frame and everything cleaned out. I found a 2inch wire wheel did a great job.



I also got the bushings out of the upper control arms.



I still need to do some clean up on the upper arms and get them ready to install the new delrin bushings. I'm going to try and get the knuckles rebuilt this week. Then I want to get the center section off to get rebuilt and the torsen installed. The project I'm working on is done at the end of the month then I should be able to get back on a normal schedule of working on the car.
 

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Are you going to powder coat? I did frames, pinion cross members, upper arms, rear frame brackets, sway bars, and sway bar brackets. If you are going to use the FTBR cam adjusters to be able to increase negative camber, you might want to elongate the slots in the arms before powder as well.

Jay
 

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Discussion Starter #675
Are you going to powder coat? I did frames, pinion cross members, upper arms, rear frame brackets, sway bars, and sway bar brackets. If you are going to use the FTBR cam adjusters to be able to increase negative caster, you might want to elongate the slots in the arms before powder as well.

Jay
I'm looking into the powder coating route right now. Not sure of I'm going to do it or not. The one thing I kind of want to do is paint the lower control arms black to match the upper arms and leave the knuckles silver but I haven't decided. I have the knuckle hardware kit from FTBR that came with the cam adjusters. I still need to elongate the slots on the arms.
 

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I thought about black for the lower arms, center, and knuckles as well, and then decided I wanted the aluminum bits to look the part. For the center section, I've come to appreciate lighter colors for things that carry lube, makes it much easier to spot leaks.

Jay
 

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Discussion Starter #677
I thought about black for the lower arms, center, and knuckles as well, and then decided I wanted the aluminum bits to look the part. For the center section, I've come to appreciate lighter colors for things that carry lube, makes it much easier to spot leaks.

Jay
The center section I won't paint for that same reason. I hoping by the time the season ends on Nov 24 I will have all the stuff I need to get done on the IRS so I will be ready to install.

I still need to get the power steering figured out so I can run it at the last event. I'm still not sure if its a pump issue or a problem some where else in the system.
 

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Discussion Starter #678
Jack

Would it be possible for a steering rack to get plugged or not be able to get fluid into the rack properly. I was thinking about it this morning and the amount of fluid that I got out of the system when doing the install on the pump and the addition of the cooler I didn't put nearly the same amount of fluid into the system. When I did the pump install I disconnected the return for the power steering at the rack turned the wheels a bunch of times to push the fluid out of the rack so I could put fresh fluid into the system. When I ran the car the cooler was getting warm so it seems fluid is passing through it but my guess is when your not turning the wheel the fluid is bypassing through the return. I've tried lifting the front tires off the ground and turning the wheel and vacuum bleeding the system but I don't and more air out of the system.
 

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Peter,

When there is no torque applied to the input shaft on the steering rack, the control ports in the zervo valve in the steering rack are closed, so no fluid can flow through it. This causes the output pressure of the fluid coming out of the PS pump to go way up. This high pump pressure causes the bypass circuit to open in the pump. Under these conditions all of the fluid is internally being bypassed within the pump itself.

Note that if you have the front tires off of the ground and turn the steering wheel back and forth, there will be virtually zero torque at the input shaft of the steering rack because there is no resistance to stop the tires from turning. Because of this, very, very little fluid will flow through the rack as the servo valve is barely open. At this point, I would turn the steering back and forth with the tires on the ground, from lock to lock. This will ensure that the valve opens all of the way and help bleed air out of the rack if there is any in it. You shouldn't need to use a vaucum pump on the system. Once the steering is turned back and forth enough times, it will bleed all of the air out by itself.
 

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Discussion Starter #680
Peter,

When there is no torque applied to the input shaft on the steering rack, the control ports in the zervo valve in the steering rack are closed, so no fluid can flow through it. This causes the output pressure of the fluid coming out of the PS pump to go way up. This high pump pressure causes the bypass circuit to open in the pump. Under these conditions all of the fluid is internally being bypassed within the pump itself.

Note that if you have the front tires off of the ground and turn the steering wheel back and forth, there will be virtually zero torque at the input shaft of the steering rack because there is no resistance to stop the tires from turning. Because of this, very, very little fluid will flow through the rack as the servo valve is barely open. At this point, I would turn the steering back and forth with the tires on the ground, from lock to lock. This will ensure that the valve opens all of the way and help bleed air out of the rack if there is any in it. You shouldn't need to use a vaucum pump on the system. Once the steering is turned back and forth enough times, it will bleed all of the air out by itself.
Thanks Jack what I will do is try turning the wheel more when the car is on the ground. I did it around 15 times before but maybe I just haven't got all the air pushed out of the system. I just figured after turning it while it was on the ground and driving it for 50miles it would have got all the air out of the system. I guess whats hard is the old pump never made noise the only new parts are the pump and the cooler but I doubt the cooler would do anything since its on the return side of the pump.
 
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